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Oil question
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34501		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Pierre [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:13 am ]
Post subject: 
It may be a challenge to find any CI-4 Diesel oil. The new diesel oil is CJ-4 rated. I went through the same thing a few months ago when choosing a new oil. Shouldn't be too hard to find my other thread

I settled for 10-30 Rotella CJ-4. The UOA's on bobistheoilguy.com show it is still a good performer and has 1100-1300ppm zddp in it.

15w40 is common as dirt, 10w30 is there but harder to find and may need to get direct from a distributor. There's the synthetic 5w-40 thats common as well, and the single grades. Try shell.com or flip through your phone book for a local shell distributor to get more info on availability of anything else.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Frank,

I believe it for a hydraulic lifter motor however, I am running solid lifters. I wonder what they would recommend for a 1961 through 1974 motor?

Over the long term, I am wonder if there is enough protection with the Mobile 1 0-30W synthetic in a motor with solid lifters?
The engine sure runs great with it and sounds good.........
Author:  FrankRaso [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:50 am ]
Post subject: 
I thought the CJ-4 diesel oils would still work fine on flat tappet engine oils too. With luck, Widman will update his oil article with a discussion of these oils since the CI-4s are difficult to find now.

Ted, as for the older solid lifter engines, I think the Mobil 1 recommendation would still be applicable because all slant sixes were flat tappet engines. I couldn't pick an earlier engine because 1980 was Mobil's earliest choice. Their synthetic oil promotional video shows Mobil 1 being recommended for older cars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-sz-ZfnhSw
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Frank,

It sure runs quieter and starts up with a bang in the morning. It sounds like it starts as the first cylinder fires, turn the key and let off as quick as I can because it is already running.

The 0-30W synthetic is a far cry from the 10-30 Valvoline dino oil I was running.

I will stick with the 0-30 and the Wix 1806 filter. They are really nice, no drain back and 50 psi in just a second or two first thing in the morning.
Author:  66aCUDA [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Ted
I also use Mobil 1 on all my mills. I have some that have 100k on them and they look good inside. I probally wont ever switch.
Frank
Author:  FrankRaso [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Ted,

Why are you using a Wix (Napa Gold?) 1806 filter? The equivalent to a PH8A is a Wix 51515.
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:57 am ]
Post subject: 
The 1806 has a built in standpipe to keep oil in the filter. It's an alternative to the pumps that didn't have one. Also doesn't have the check valve in it like the mopar pipes did to help with flow.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Wix 1806 and 0-30W Mobile 1
Frank,

Yes, it is a good free flowing filter and provides 50 lbs. oil pressure (using the stock oil pump) with 0-30W Mobil 1 immediately on cold start up. There is no leak down causing lifter noise at all. It is a very,very nice combination. :D

I used to hear an occasional rod knock and lifter clatter on icy cold winter days.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Why are you using a Wix (Napa Gold?) 1806 filter?
Probably 'cause he's read this post and the threads linked from it. :cool:
Author:  FrankRaso [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:37 am ]
Post subject: 
So many threads. So little time. Thanks for pointing them out! I see now that the 51806 is a better alternative to using the OEM-style 51068 for the engines without a standpipe.

Actually, I looked up the applications for the Wix 51806 and noticed that there absolutely no recommendations for this filter on a slant six. The micron rating rating was also higher (25 vs 19) than the 51515 & 51068.

From looking through some older posts, it looks like the stand-pipe in the older engines (like my 65) might not always do a great job of preventing drain-back. From the earlier posts, it looks like the 51806 can also directly replace the 51515 in older engines (i.e., standpipe within a standpipe).
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
So many threads. So little time. Thanks for pointing them out! I see now that the 51806 is a better alternative to using the OEM-style 51068 for the engines without a standpipe.
The only reason short 1068s were used on slant-6s at all is because they began to be used on V8s for necessary clearance (don't recall what the clearance was for), and it was easier to stock one filter rather than two for service replacement.
Quote:
Actually, I looked up the applications for the Wix 51806 and noticed that there absolutely no recommendations for this filter on a slant six.
True. But of what consequence is that?
Quote:
The micron rating rating was also higher (25 vs 19) than the 51515 & 51068.
Probably not an accurate listing; the filter element itself is by all scrutiny the same.
Quote:
From looking through some older posts, it looks like the stand-pipe in the older engines (like my 65) might not always do a great job of preventing drain-back.
True.
Quote:
From the earlier posts, it looks like the 51806 can also directly replace the 51515 in older engines (i.e., standpipe within a standpipe).
Also true.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
The short filter was used on V8s when the right angle oil filter adapter was eliminated. The reason for the right and adapter and the short filter is clearance to the right side exhaust pipe.
Author:  AnotherSix [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:30 am ]
Post subject: 
One thing to keep in mind is that a high lift flat tappet cam with stiff springs will wear out quickly no matter what oil is used. On high rpm street engines I have seen cams that are tired after about 30,000 miles. and that goes back 20 some years. Just running lower spring pressures, realistic for the actual rpm helps quite a bit. Cam manufacturers often recommend some very stiff springs for their cams, often the same spring set for everything from a rv cam up to a hot street cam. Unless you need to rev past peak horsepower rpm, you just don't need ridiculous spring pressures

With a stock cam and springs, or something like .460" lift and rv or 340 type springs, I don't think cam wear will be an issue with modern oil of the correct weight. Making sure you have clean oil that is not broken down really does matter, so normal oil and filter changes cannot be ignored.

I was running Redline with 1/2 pint of EOS at every change to the engine in my Grand National. It was pretty tough on the oil, had semi stiff springs, required a huge amount of work to change the cam and was just expensive overall to deal with. For that engine it was cheap insurance. This seemed to be a 100% solution.

On our slant that still has the stock cam (soon to be the rv15m erson) I am still using normal valvoline 10w30, no additives . When I run out of conventional oil I will likely go synthetic for that car. Our 65 dart with a 273, same story. I am a little wary of 0w30, maybe a 10w30 or 5w30, and nothing that goes up to 40 except for in the summer.

On my 69 chevy wagon with a flat tappet GM crate motor I am using redline without any additives and running it 12,000 miles with a filter change at 6000. That car either sits or tows a trailer. So far so good. I have done this in the past with other engines and they looked very good inside after 130,000 miles or more.

For a new buildup I would try to make sure the crank is very straight and run tight clearances on the mains and rods, like .001" if you can get it. Pistons have to go with what is needed for each type. Then plan on using one of the modern, low viscosity oils.

For you guys running diesel oils, are you having any extra deposits on the spark plugs and valves from the high detergent content?
Author:  FrankRaso [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:29 am ]
Post subject: 
The viscosity of motor oils at various temperatures can easily be calculated. Let's pretend that our engine oil is running at 150°C (302°F). Using Esso XD-3 Extra 0W-30 (PAO synthetic), its viscosity will be 5.22 cSt. For another synthetic 0W-30, let's use Mobil 1 0W-30. At 150°C, its viscosity will be 4.71 cSt.

My owner's manual calls for SAE 30 in summer conditions. Using Esso Universal HD mineral oil as an example, its viscosity at 150°C will be 4.46 cSt. For a synthetic 10W-30, let's use Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30. At 150°C, its viscosity will be 4.32 cSt.

It looks to me that the 0W-30 synthetic oils perform better at high temperatures than 30-weight dino oils and 10W-30 synthetics. Because synthetics do not readily break down at high temperatures, I think you can also avoid the added plumbing complexity of an oil cooler.
Author:  FrankRaso [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Napa 1806 Update
I checked with Wix and they confirmed to me that the Wix 51806 and the 51515 use the same filter media:
Quote:
Further information and checking, showed that the 51806 media was changed to the same media as the 51515 and it appears that the web information has not been updated. I will send a note to our catalog department to update.

As for the micron rating, I would like to give you a little background. Approximately 10-15 years ago, the update to a higher efficiency media took place with many of the filter companies, to trap the finer contaminant particles, since most automotive engines are now closed, higher efficiency systems (fuel injected) and not the older, normally aspirated engines, which allowed much more contamination to enter the engine. ... Yes, the micron in the 51515 and the 51806 is correct at 19 microns.
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