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Toying With The Idea Of Building A S6...Or Swapping To A 318
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35330		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  ceej [ Thu May 14, 2009 4:45 pm ]
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...just milling the head and/or block some arbitrary number endangers the ability to run on regular gasoline.
Bwahahahahahaha! Regular gasoline is for weenies! :lol:

This is good advice. I knew I'd need premium to pull the pass with the compression I shot for. I had to try regular though; Pings like mad! :roll:

Get good measurements, then make an informed decision with what you want to do.

I wouldn't be hard on Brennan. He did some serious experimenting, then opted to go another route. He got his build running pretty well in the end, just not to his satisfaction. I thought his post here was right on the money. If you want 318 power, put in 318 power. If you want a bit more slant six zap, put more zap in your slant six.

I don't use all the advice I get here. Sometimes due to conflicting points of view, and other times just 'cause I want to do it my way. I'm like that. :lol:

CJ
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Thu May 14, 2009 5:16 pm ]
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The best bang for the buck is to increase the compression by milling the head
Or the block, or both. Milling the block has the advantage of reducing the negative deck height; you don't get that with head milling. Of course, whichever hunk of metal is shaved, it has to be done with calculator and paper/pencil in hand and brain engaged; just milling the head and/or block some arbitrary number endangers the ability to run on regular gasoline.
I stand by my statement. In the original post LWS, asked "best bang for the buck". Increasing compression by head milling is far cheaper then block milling, and is the best SINGLE improvement, for the money spent.

I do agree about using the "numbers" to determine the correct amout to mill.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu May 14, 2009 5:19 pm ]
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That's certainly true, particularly if a full engine rebuild isn't being done. But I thought the OP was talking about a full rebuild. Maybe I'm conflating this thread with Menkemoose's thread about the engine plan for his '66 Cortez.
Author:  65 dartman [ Thu May 14, 2009 5:54 pm ]
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Well now that we know it's a van, it seems to me we might have another option. If (as is often the case with vehicles like this one) it's factory-equipped with the A-engine trans with the adaptor plate and low-mount starter, then an overdrive automatic transmission (A500, A518) could be installed without much difficulty.
An A500/518 would most likely be too long for his application since he has a short wheelbase van (90 inches). Even with his current van transmission the driveshaft is only about 18 inches or less long.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu May 14, 2009 7:17 pm ]
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So he could have the world's shortest driveshaft, at 11" long or something! :lol:
Author:  LWS1967 [ Thu May 14, 2009 7:34 pm ]
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Hey I appreciate all input, from reading some of the posts here and elsewhere I can see there is perhaps some very strong differing opinions on ways we choose to go about doing stuff. All is welcome, and again, appreciated.
My slant van has the smallblock 727, that I fully rebuilt myself (first attempt I might add) a few years back, unfortunately I put in one of those crap B&M shift kits (crap) and it "bang" shifts...been dealing with that for far too long. Never liked it from the get-go, and I should have replaced the converter, I think it's on it's last leg. Oops. Will be yanking it, putting in a later nos valve body with the part throttle kickdown, and will be using a towing Transgo TF1 kit, as well as a rebuilt converter (all parts already on work bench). So no trans swaps. So while the trans is out, I think it makes sense to yank the engine for a proper rebuild. And the more I think about it, the 318 swap is probably out of the question. I've got a recent recored radiator, recent ignition conversion......lots of money already spent on good parts. Don't really want to buy another radiator, mounts, ignition, yadda-yadda-yadda to do a swap! I'd like to see just what these slants can do.
Author:  LWS1967 [ Thu May 14, 2009 7:39 pm ]
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So he could have the world's shortest driveshaft, at 11" long or something! :lol:
Short and stubby :lol: It's a two piece type. It is about the shortest I've ever seen on any vehicle.
Author:  LWS1967 [ Thu May 14, 2009 7:45 pm ]
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I stand by my statement. In the original post LWS, asked "best bang for the buck". Increasing compression by head milling is far cheaper then block milling, and is the best SINGLE improvement, for the money spent.

I do agree about using the "numbers" to determine the correct amout to mill.
I like the idea of milling the head, as well as going with those enginbuilder valves I see on Ebay. Do some porting (anybody have templates for sure fire results?) and use the Erson springs and retainers....sounds like a winner
Author:  runvs_826 [ Thu May 14, 2009 10:20 pm ]
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For the slant it is just as easy to use the stock intake/exhaust gasket and match it to those. There has been a few threads about guys punching into the intake runners, it's not only frustrating, it can be very hard on your wallet. Honestly, a smaller cross section is said to keep velocity higher and therefore more torque, this is at the cost of flow in the higher rpms, but spin the motor past 4500rpm and we will talk more.
Bren's numbers are about accurate, he said about $3000 for a basic 318 swap that is actually slower than his old slant he had built. I figure that you have about $1000 to spend which will get you pretty far if your careful, patient, and miserly. It won't get you into the 15's I'm not going to lie, but will be night and day. I don't know about 9mpg either Bren, I mean my old 440 got that in a 79' Dodge Ram pickup. A complete all out race motor, sure, but really sub-teens????
A good intake, the super six being the most cost effective, and good run around the head and I think you will be quite surprised. Don't expect miracles, but it's nice to have a fairly street mannered car that you can afford to drive everyday. I could have the opportunity to drop a 340 that is 11:1, 292/.509, and full x-heads, but how the heck could I drive it and put av-gas into it every week?
Author:  kipamore [ Fri May 15, 2009 7:26 am ]
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I spend a lot of my days thinking about vans/trucks and gas mileage. I've done a lot of armchair research on vans and mileage, so I can add this. Except for the Dodge Sprinter, vans generally get crappy mileage. The single best one out thee is a mid 90s Chevy Astro 3.8 V6 that will consistently get 22 or 23mpg on the highway. Compare this to your van, about the same weight, about the same displacement, but 30 years older with no computer. I'd say 17 highway is realistic. 14 or 15 city would be pretty darn good.

Short of compression bumps, your talking about a mostly stock build. I'd check the compression and as long as it's good then you are mostly done with the engine. You've already upgraded the ignition. I'd spend my time on aero, weight reduction, and lowering as better bang for buck.

Speaking of bang for buck, let's say you drive this toaster on wheels 10k a year. Assuming an average of 15mpg and gas at $2.25 you'll spend $1500. If you make a bunch of mods and improve that to 17 mpg you'll save $176 bucks a year. So your budget is $176 per year to get an 8.8% improvement in mileage. That's going to be a tough goal to hit. If you spend $357 dollars on the van, it's going to take 2 years/20k to break even. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.

It gets better if gas gets more expensive of course.
Kip-On-Truckin'
Author:  LWS1967 [ Fri May 15, 2009 7:24 pm ]
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I think I'm getting closer to knowing what I will do with it. I'll build the slant. The money to convert to a v8, and what I know I'd be tempted to do to it performance wise....I'd be out of control! I'll save all that for my long ago (still) dream to build a pro street 81-83 Imperial. Instead, I'll find either a stock iron two barrel intake, or maybe luck out and score the Mopar Performance one, maybe one of those new two barrel's Dan's got, swap the ECU for the HEI module, definately the dual Dutra duals, basic stock short block rebuild, mill the head, add either the Erson or Comp Cams kit, and do a little porting. No fancy dress up items as its buried under the doghouse and not much to look at anyways. Hope to be compiling parts soon. :D
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri May 15, 2009 9:43 pm ]
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Get an Erson cam for sure. It's the difference between buying a well-made cam specifically (and recently, and knowledgeably) designed for the slant-6, from a company who go out of their way to support the slant-6 community, instead of buying a "gee, I hope this Comp cam isn't bad" item consisting of old Chevrolet profiles ground on a slant-6 blank.
Author:  runvs_826 [ Fri May 15, 2009 11:39 pm ]
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Sounds like a good plan. I don't hate v8's or people who drive them, I just try to be realistic about life and realize stuff has a time and place. If you were planning on swapping from a 318 to a slant I would tell you no as well.
81 Imperial huh? My uncle's engine builder made a 90's carlo go 200mph!
Author:  LWS1967 [ Sat May 16, 2009 4:22 am ]
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Sounds like a good plan.
81 Imperial huh?
Oh yeah, something along the lines of this (only maybe a tad more streetable!)

Image
Author:  66aCUDA [ Sat May 16, 2009 6:03 am ]
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Dont forget the Aussie Speed Manifolds. They have a 2 bbl Alum manifold that is of long runner design(more TQ and HP). Our money is really strong there right now and they are Great to deal with.
Just my 02.
Frank
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