Ted: Using one presently
I have always done it that way, still have that tappet clatter. I must have become accustom to quiet hydraulic lifter engines.
Don't understand what lash ramp is, never heard of it.

I had set the valve lash per Doc's instructions last fall or early this spring, as he had suggested to back off lash for better idle quality.
Jezz, I did type 0.014"! Last night I was a bit beat out, and at one point nodded off while replying... The exhaust valves are set to 0.024" sorry for the misinformation. I think I will revisit the valve lash this weekend for a quick check. I have noticed that sometimes the adjustment will tighten up.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

wjajr,

Lash ramp is the beginning of the cam lobe slope before the valve starts to move.

I remember Doc telling you to back them off, but not leave it that way.......He told me the same thing when I first put my cam in to be on the safe side. Then dial the valves in .002 at a time.
I keep tightening the intake valves up on my cam which is a torque monster and it keeps putting out more power from the increased lift. However, I wouldn't suggest that on yours since your after a descent idle.

Lou explained it very well. You want to decrease the feeler gauge size in .002 increments from where your at now. The exhaust may be just fine at .020, but the intake is where you can reduce or increase the overlap event. By having the intakes real loose you have decreased the overlap event so you can get a better idle. The more you tighten the intake the more loppy it gets and the worse the idle becomes. You may want to leave the intake valves alone.......and just tighten up the exhaust valves a little to reduce clatter.

When adjusting hot while the engine is running you can tell right away what the valve needs. You can hear when you have gone too far because the tapping will stop. You want a little on the exhaust, but not too much to where it clatters.

With a cam like yours you can play with the intake side and dial in what ever you want to get the idle as good as you can. I am not saying you can dial out all the overlap of the cam, but you have allot of wiggle room. So get the exhaust side quieted down so they are not clattering, then try to tighten up the intake if you can. If you can't, fine, leave it, but the exhaust doesn't need to be that loose........ that should make it a little quieter and not change the idle.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Ted,

I finally got a chance to play redneck garage today. Rechecked my lash and timing, kept playing with them until idle & vacuum changed a bit for the better.

Set exhaust a bit tighter to 0.022", loosened intakes 0.016" to 0.020", and backed off timing from 12-13 degrees to 10 degrees BTDC.

Result was steadier vacuum needle below 1000 rpm. Now in gear at rest idle is about 550 to 600 rpm with 0-5"Hg & bouncing needle. Before the needle swing was 0 - 9"Hg. In Park an idle of 900 rpm yields vacuum of 9-10"hg. with quivering needle.

Tip in of mechanical advance looks to be at about 1150 rpm with steady needle using GM silver spring where she climbs to 13-14 degrees BTDC. at 1400 rpm for a rock steady needle at 13.5"Hg. Highway cruse yields only 15-16"hg, but now 20"Hg. off throttle down hill.

Idle rpm is still rolling up & down a 100 rpms or so. I don't understand why this is happening, if it is the mechanical advance primary spring not holding the weights in tight, and allowing them to quiver in & out a bit, or what.

It is too late to fit the newly arrived primary spring today, as a car show is on for tomorrow, and I need to clean the car up to be ready to roll early Sunday morning. When I get back Sunday afternoon, the distributor is coming out for a fresh spring.

What I glean from Charlie's spring use graph, if I keep at my present setting of 10 degrees BTDC, and want mechanical advance to tip in to be at 1500-1600 rpm, I need to use the blue or black spring. Is this correct?

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

wjajr,
I would try the green spring first replacing the GM silver spring on the primary side only. Leave the secondary spring you have on there. Run up the rpms and watch the timing light. That should settle down any premature advance weight movement.
For the idle to wander 100 rpm with your mystery cam and the GM silver spring is not bad. The spring my may be right on the edge of being too light to keep the weights pulled in.

The black spring should stop any early movement for sure. It's pretty beefy. Again, check with the timing light to verify, but I bet that would be perfect for your mystery cam!

1. Yellow is the lightest
2. Blue is medium light
3. Green is medium heavy
4. Black is heavy

Let us know how it goes. It sounds like your really getting the tuning dialed in.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Ted,

Beating of a dead horse continues, sorry to be such a pest, I just want to get this right so the next (if ever) project goes quickly with precision & correct results, if you catch my drift...

After reviewing SS Dan's Distributor vacuum can specs post of May 30, 2005. I have identified VC 208 as a R-11, but have not been able to convert R- numbers to part numbers for the others listed. You have suggested that this can may be of benefit to my car.

Do I have it right that the R- number stamped on the vacuum can arm is doubled for its maximum advance as I show below R-7 at 14*, or am I all wet?

Refresh memory Department:

Present configuration as of Sep. 5, 2009:
10 deg initial = 10*
Mechanical = 22*
R-7 can = 14*
total = 46*

Dan's post lists VC 208 (R-11) to start advance @ 6" Hg. giving 10*, and max out @ 11" Hg. giving 12*. This is well with in my low vacuum parameters, and should work for full advance at light throttle cruse, but won't get me to that magic low 50* advance point.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Setting timing on the crank pulley is BTDC (retard) at 10* degrees.

That means 36* advance total from top dead center. I think.

Cheers, Wizard

wjajr,
Yes, you double the amount stamped on the arm.
Yes, you are correct 10+22+14 for 46 degrees total.
This looks good on paper but when you verify the VC-208 pod installed it comes on much quicker. My cruise vacuum is between 14 and 19" so all 22 degrees is in. That is between 2000 rpm and 2500 rpm (50 to 60 mph).
On your car I would add the 32 degrees (initial and mechanical) and 22 degrees from the the VC-208 to get 54 degrees. That would be nice for cruising long distance. That is where my car jumps from 23.5 around town to over 25 mpg on the freeway.

I wish Dan had posted the "arm" numbers stamped on the can for the various pods he listed because that number is much more valuable to us tunners, since it represents the maximum advance. The pod ratings can be modified somewhat with a 3/32 allen wrench, to kick in later.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Ted: I'll order one of the VC-208 pods in the next few days (busy with the new house), when it comes, I pop in the new green spring, and hopefully all this rigg'in will pan out to your magic 54 degrees at cruse, with a mechanical tip in around 1500 to 1600 rpm.

One more detail, the engine is back to giving some, real good back spin when shut down. I would think that this would not be an issue with only 10 degrees of advance. Before the valve lash adjustment Friday, the engine would only occasionally kick back. I now have to kill the engine while in gear when it is idled down into the 500-600 rpm range, and it still spins backwards with vigor. Any ideas?

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

wjajr,

Some thoughts.........

I would think the amount of valve overlap your mystery cam has would kill the engine in a heart beat.

What is the compression ratio? If it is up around 9.5 to 10 to 1 compression it should shut right off unless........

Is the engine carboned up to where it could be pre-igniting?

or could your power valve leaking?

Before I rebuilt my engine, being totally stock it was carboned up pretty bad and would diesel on shut off especially with 87 octane with 4 or 5 degrees of timing.

Not knowing the history of your motor it may need to be de-carbonized, especially if it is low compression.

I run water injection all the time just to keep it from carboning up and clean inside. The idle is very crisp! as are the shut offs and start ups.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Had the head off this spring about 3000 miles ago for new over sized valves, a shave, and porting. Got nice light tan plugs last time I looked a 1000 miles ago, so most likely no carbon build-up yet.

Calculated compression is 9.5:1, I run 89 octane, because I couldn't hear any pinging if there was some over the racket coming out of the two pipes in the back.

While struggling to get this engine to run a few weeks ago when I knocked the timing off during one of many distributor spring swaps, there was good backfire out the carburetor. Gas mileage seems to be lower since the last spring swap, I had chalked it up to not getting 54* advance out of it, playing with idle jets, and lower initial timing setting voo-doo. When I rebuilt the carburetor in December, I installed a backfire check ball kit, hopefully I did not rupture the power valve.

Is there an easy way to check for a blown power valve? The engine now has a pronounced flat spot off of most any throttle position under 3000 rpm's, and was not nearly as bad as this before all the messing around.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Better replace the power valve.... They do make a testor, but I haven't seen one in awhile.

Replace it before you try to do any more tuning.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Sorry to take so long getting back Ted. Had a PC melt-down, and just got the stinking device back from ICU. Been reinstalling all my stuff, what a PIA.

[quote]Ted:
Better replace the power valve....[/quote]


Yanked the power valve, gave it the suck test, held with no “suck byâ€￾, so I slapped it back in. I have been driving the car a bit more these days on 100 mile runs, and now I’m convinced that perhaps a stiffer secondary diaphragm spring may help increase fuel mileage. It seems if I run the car steady near or over 3000 rpm fuel consumption increases, where I am running the lightest spring, I suspect the secondaries are cracking open.

Most of the stumble coming on to the throttle was caused by having the idle speed adjustment screw turned in too much exposing too much of the idle slots. I'm going to have to control my idle with timing adjustments.

Having been off line for five days caused a hic-up in parts ordering. Just ordered a VC-208 from the Rock, be here by Monday the latest… I hope.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Glad your back at it. PC's can be a pain.....

I would be tempted to running a stiffer vacuum spring if your spinning 3000 at cruise. Hopefully that will keep them from opening.
What kind of vacuum do you see at 3000 rpm?

My cruise is between 2000 and 2500. I rarely see 3000 since it is well over 80 mph. Vacuum readings are between 15" and 20" at 2500, (60 mph).

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Ted:
[quote]What kind of vacuum do you see at 3000 rpm? [/quote]

I’m turning about 2900 to 3000 rpm at 60 mph with 3.55’s & P205/70R14’s out back, and sucking 15 to 17â€￾Hg at cruse. Slightest throttle dip-in will knock the vacuum down to the 10 Hg range, and a good long steep hill will still further lower it to the 5 Hg range Now that the suspension is straightened out, sustained 65 to 70 mph is not uncommon, and this is seems to be the sweet spot for power. This engine loves to pull hard from 2800 to 4300 rpm.

Can’t wait for the new vacuum can to arrive, and hopefully the last governor spring install to be completed.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Ted,

Got the green spring installed, and VC208 backed off 6 turns, initial timing @ +10*. Timing mark is mostly steady now, and idle is not rollin up & down as much as before.

Vacuum, green spring less vacuum can, and green spring with vacuum can at different RPM as follows:

Vac. "Hg.------RPM--------Green spg only----W/ VC

9 & quivering--900-----------------10----------10*
10-------------1050-----------------10----------11*
13-------------1200-----------------12*---------16*
15-------------1400-----------------19*---------19*
15-------------1600-----------------19*---------19*
15-------------1800-----------------25*---------28*
16-------------2000-----------------25*---------29*
17-------------2200-----------------26*---------45*
18-------------2400-----------------28*---------52*
18-------------2600-----------------28*---------53*
18-------------2800-----------------28*---------53*

Green spring is flexing at a too low 1100 rpm. Engine won’t always settle down quickly to 900 rpm idle after run at higher rpm at which time it likes to stay up around 1200 rpm.

Vacuum can is adding 4* at a too low 1200 rpm, so do I back it off a few more turns?

Between 2000 & 2200 rpm the vacuum can cranks in +20* and is all in at 2500 rpm.

These are the best vacuum numbers I have ever seen, 16Hg has been best to date.

Do you think I need to install the black spring to keep the mechanical advance from kicking in before 1500?

The car is fairly well mannered 600 to 1200 rpm. It dose not seem to have as much vigor 35 to 70 mph as before this spring & can change. But to be fair, I have been pounding on the miles in the Hemi car for the last several weeks, and everything else currently feels like a slug under me...

Still getting some kick back when shutting down engine if it is idling above 900 rpm.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC