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Oil Pump
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38532		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  GTS225 [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:03 am ]
Post subject: 
What I'd like to find out is the GPH/GPM of the typical P/S pump and compare it to the GPH/GPM of a typical engine oil pump, as well as external single stage pumps. I just have no idea where to look.

The external pumps are really nothing more than a hydraulics pump not unlike that used on a log splitter. One would just have to add an appropriate pressure relief valve and plumbing, along with a remote filter setup.
I was thinking along the lines of ease of mounting by using a P/S pump, if possible. Something like this would work well for, say, a dragster. Seems to me a guy could eliminate the mid-sump from a stock pan and weld in a pickup bung, thus gaining a bit of clearance underneath.

Hmmmmm.....I wonder what effect could be found by using an electric driven pump? One could set the oil pressure at a steady 30 or 40 psi, and the engine RPM's would have no effect on oil pressure. Makes a guy wonder if that would be good or bad.

Roger
Author:  sandy in BC [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry about the incorrect post saying Terrys pump was a PS pump. I misunderstood his description.

With the proper failsafes an electric pump on a dragster could be cool. It would certainly be nice for preoiling.....
Author:  maxracer21 [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  oil pump
This is getting interesting............Your thoughts on constant oil pressure in particular..........I've been thinking belt driven. would a constant electric pump do the trick?.........that would be too easy. also .......I wonder about viscosity when using a ps pump.........man , I wish I was a math guy. I'm just an old trial and error racer. mostly error if you know what I mean. I do have a bladder type pre-oiler but it would be constant pressure also
Author:  DonPal [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Is the purpose of the external oil pump to prelube the engine before a cold start or to be the only oil pump for a running motor?

My spare Ply/Dodge flathead six oil pump is immersed in oil in a large coffee can and has a line running to the SL6 oil sender unit where a pressure guage is also mounted. An electric drill with a long shaft & flat blade is used to turn the oil pump at a speed that does not produce oil pressures exceeding 40 psi. This adds oil to the engine.

I'd like to improve on that method so I can do it each time I have long timeframe cold starts.....not just after when the engine has been torn down.

Ideally a dash switch powers an electric oil pump that pulls oil from the pan & doesn't over pressurize would be desired in place of my crude unit described above.
Author:  GTS225 [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
DonPal.....Typically, an externally-mounted, (usually belt-driven) oil pump is used in a race application, and is the only source of pressurized lubrication.
More often that not, the situation is to allow having the engine closer to the ground, thus eliminating the normal sump on the bottom of the pan.
Carefully placing a pickup bung in the pan, and piping it to the suction side of the external pump will then give you a pressurized source of lubrication, and you would than have to pipe the discharge side to the appropriate points on your engine to keep it alive.

(Disclaimer; My description is rather elementary, but that's the general idea for an external pump.)

Roger
Author:  GTS225 [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Maxracer..........My thoughts on constant oil pressure at a given setting are not from the brain of a genius. That's why I posed the question to the board.
It does seem to me, though, that a constant oil pressure at all engine speeds and loads would remove a certain variable that may or may not lead to engine failure. Can't say conclusively, as I'm not an engineer.

The problem with an electric pump is that there are more parts to break in the lubrication system. One would have to have a good motor to drive the pump. To add to the possible headaches, it would substantially increase the electrical demand on the car's system, most likely requiring an upgrade to the alternator, and possibly the regulator.

One could definitely not pull all that juice through thier factory amp guage in our earlier cars.

Roger
Author:  maxracer21 [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  oil pump
guess what?.............found a pump on Ebay for 350.00. external belt drive...........new about 650.00. with a wet sump set-up close to 1000.00. what was I thinking?.......... Think I'll use Dutras pump and forget about it!
Author:  Reed [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: oil pump
Quote:
what was I thinking?.......... Think I'll use Dutras pump and forget about it!
Words of wisdom. Why spend money to make an already reliable system more complicated and less reliable?
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Is the purpose of the external oil pump to prelube the engine before a cold start or to be the only oil pump for a running motor?

My spare Ply/Dodge flathead six oil pump is immersed in oil in a large coffee can and has a line running to the SL6 oil sender unit where a pressure guage is also mounted. An electric drill with a long shaft & flat blade is used to turn the oil pump at a speed that does not produce oil pressures exceeding 40 psi. This adds oil to the engine.

I'd like to improve on that method so I can do it each time I have long timeframe cold starts.....not just after when the engine has been torn down.

Ideally a dash switch powers an electric oil pump that pulls oil from the pan & doesn't over pressurize would be desired in place of my crude unit described above.
http://www.accusump.com/accusump_tech.html
Author:  66aCUDA [ Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Right now mine is used to prelube "new" engines. It will soon find use on my FED.
Frank
Author:  DonPal [ Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:07 am ]
Post subject: 
The 2 qts. accusump sized unit appears to be what they would recommend for a SL6 for temporary oiling prior to a cold start.

If 2 qts is pulled out of the pan then should 7 qts of oil be used at each oil change?

The SL6 oil pump would dump 2 qts back into the accusump unit once running so that excess oil in the pan would be very temporary & not a problem during a low rpm start.
Author:  maxracer21 [ Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  oil pump
a prelubed engine will out last a dry start-up engine by many many miles. I used mine on a daily driver for years. well worth th price of admission., and they are not thatexpensive if you buy what they call a bladder accumulator from an oil field parts house............less than half the price back in the day. better quality also. I believe the brand name was Koomey or another called ross hill. The come in sizes up to 20 gal ,down to 1 qt.
Author:  Doc [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The 2 qts. accusump sized unit appears to be what they would recommend for a SL6 for temporary oiling prior to a cold start.

If 2 qts is pulled out of the pan then should 7 qts of oil be used at each oil change?

The SL6 oil pump would dump 2 qts back into the accusump unit once running so that excess oil in the pan would be very temporary & not a problem during a low rpm start.
Truth is, I run my accusump system race car at 5.5 to 6 quarts.
When ithe engine is running, the oil in the pan is kept intentionally low to reduce windage.
DD

Image
Author:  DonPal [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Based on your picture (which looks like a manual valve installation from that angle) & your description you may rarely have 4 qt's in the engine & filter.

If you have 2 qts in the accumulator under pressure and open the manual valve at a cold start then you would have something less than 4 qts in the engine & filter since the accumulator must still have about 2 qts in it under a low pressure? I can't imagine it dumps all it's fill if it's mounted down low?

Do you have a modified sump along with special windage baffles to live with less than 4 qts on turns, up hills, etc?

Is that good for my & my daughter's average Darts without mods?

Is an electric (on/off) valve setup best for both Dart's that is manually turned on & off?

The fancier electric valve with the minimum psi function might give better results for low oil quantities since it feeds oil from the accumulator if the oil pump can't find oil to pump?

Based on some listings it looks like it could cost $300 +/- $50 for all the parts depending on the valving? Any less costly solutions?
Author:  maxracer21 [ Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: oil pump
Quote:
a prelubed engine will out last a dry start-up engine by many many miles. I used mine on a daily driver for years. well worth th price of admission., and they are not thatexpensive if you buy what they call a bladder accumulator from an oil field parts house............less than half the price back in the day. better quality also. I believe the brand name was Koomey or another called ross hill. The come in sizes up to 20 gal ,down to 1 qt.
an alternative to expensive accusumps. The only difference is an accusump has a piston and an accumulator has a bladder
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