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| Talk me out of this - Toyota slant 6 conversion https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39441 |
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| Author: | sergio G [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:16 am ] |
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Find a 98/02 3/4 ton diesel and pull a small box trailer to suit your needs,you will get over 20 easily and lots of chips to do better. Fuel mileage savings will make your truck payment.,and the truck is a great daily driver,dont need a second vehicle. |
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| Author: | kipamore [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:58 pm ] |
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Sergio, That's a very very good suggestion, and over the years I've looked into pulling a trailer. The mechanical Cummins is probably the best choice, followed by the mechanical Chevy diesel. But I came to a few conclusions: 1. When your diesel goes down you are often at the mercy of commercial truck mechanics, and those guys aren't cheap. 2. Diesel used to be cheaper than gas, but it's substantially more expensive these days and often times it isn't worth it, depending on what you are driving. 3. This is niggling, but many many truckstops simply don't have diesel pumps at the car island. So you end up in at the semi island, and that's all well and good but it takes FOREVER to get a lousy tank of gas. You HAVE to go inside, stand in line, etc. When I was using the bus (in my sig) I would always alot 30 minutes to get a tank of fuel. At some spots in Indiana they simply will not sell you diesel unless you have an ICC number, which I don't. Hassles. 4. Trailers are rough on cargo, and if I break it I have to pay out of my shallow pocket for it. Ouch. 5. Winters are bad enough, winters with a trailer fuggetaboutit. Hell would be trying to back a trailer down a steep loading dock in the winter. 6. Believe it or not, the single best tow vehicle you can own if you are towing less than 4000lbs is....wait for it...Buick Roadmaster! 94-96 get 26 highway and are like riding around in a living room. Of course, with that much towing you'd burn through transmissions one a year. Kip |
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| Author: | kipamore [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:10 pm ] |
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There's no room for a fan in front of the radiator. The front of the 22RE is only about 4 inches away from the radiator, so you'll need to relocate it somewhere with the longer slant. (half wide, double thickness on drivers side???) Ed, You're right - the slant pulley would crash into the stock radiator. I have a few ideas about this. Use two small radiators spaced on either side with a small fan on each, leaving room for the slant's snout in the middle. Find a different radiator that can fit in front of the bulkhead. I notice that the plastic grille piece could be shimmed forward. It would make the truck look dumb, but it looks dumb already. Ditch the bulkhead, go to hoodpins, and you've got room galore. Worse idea: mount the radiator IN the hood. Fans suck the air down and direct it toward the wheel wells. Even worse idea: mount the radiator on the roof of the truck in some kind of shroud. The bonus is you could cook hot lunches up there. Kip |
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| Author: | tophat [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:58 pm ] |
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I used to get 17 to 19 mpg in an 81 D-150 225, 727, 3.21 open diff. This was in 70% stop and go traffic. I wasn't really easy on it either. As much as I hate to say it, my daily driver is now a 95 Toyota T-100 extended cab. The T-100 with a 3.4 V6 and 4 speed auto gets 19 to 21 mpg on a 50 / 50% back roads and interstate at 70 mph. The T-100 has a topper on it with it's roof level with the top of the cab. The T also hauls around 800 to 1000# of cargo 95% of the time. I think your best choice would be to learn the tech to transplant a 3.4 V6, it is not that bad of an engine, mine has 277k. The tech isn't really that hard to learn, and if ever necessary you could pass it off as stock. My other choice for the "simple tech" would be a Chevy 4.3 V6. Yes it is quite bigger, it is basically 3/4 of a 350 Chevy. I'm sure you could find an early 80's carb truck intake, and the ignition is the standard GM HEI. Troll an S-10 board and a 4.3 should be like a slant over at the BigBlockDart site. Either put a 700r4 or a 4 speed behind it, the 700r4 electronics are super simple, and quite inexpensive. Just remember to use a NON Vortec 4.3. A 3.8 Buick would also be a good choice too. A third option would be to try to get a Dodge truck to put the slant in and try to graft the box on the toy to it. I just don't think you will fit the slant in there ... cost effectivly. I am quite sure it can be done, with torches, a sawzall, and a welder, almost anything fits, but is it worth it? How much attention do you want to draw to yourself on the highway? How long can the truck be down? How reliable does it have to be for the first 1000 miles or so? Anything would need a "shake down" period, the farther from stock, the longer. Just some more food for thought. TopHat |
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| Author: | kipamore [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:47 pm ] |
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Top hat - all good points and well thought out. Basically, you guys who suggested 4.3 Chevy and 3.8 Buick, or the more modern Toyota V6s are all correct - they are better choices and easier swaps. Downey makes kits to install the 4.3 or 3.8 right into the truck, mating right up to the stock Toyota tranny. FYI - I dug up the original EPA numbers on 84 slant six vans and D150/250 trucks. Old epa rating was 19 or 20 mpg, new is 17mpg. They drop about 4mpg without the overdrive 833 - makes sense. I suppose that means guys with A bodies could get near 30 swapping to the OD. A moment of truth is coming soon where I'll decide if I'm going to put the slant in there. I'm convinced it will fit, and I'm 60% convinced it will hit the magic 16mpg number. But you are right - downtime while I make this swap is a pretty big issue. I think it can be done and I can shake it down in a 4 or 5 days. I guess what will push me to do the swap is fear. Fear of that moment when it's 4am and I'm in BFE and there's a puddle of oil under the truck because the Toyota engine failed. That's what the slant would prevent. We'll see. -Kip |
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| Author: | rustyfords [ Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:59 pm ] |
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I put 365,000 on my 94 model 4.3L Chev V6 before I sold it. One of the best engines I ever owned. The thing may still be running somewhere. If there are kits to swap in a 4.3, I'd at least consider it. Like the slants, they made about a zillion of them....parts are dirt cheap, and so are the rebuildable engines. |
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| Author: | crash922108 [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:59 pm ] |
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Kip, I say put the slant in it. That powertrain combo will be nearly bullit proof and I believe you will hit the 16mpg mark, maybe better! Sounds like you have already got it built in your head..DO IT!!  When you get started take plenty of pics and keep us posted!!
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| Author: | kipamore [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:55 pm ] |
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Crash, I think you are reading my mind. I took another long look at it today, and I think it's going to be fairly easy. Thursday I pick up the engine/trans combo, and so I will have it in front of me, just BEGGING to be dropped in there. The more I look at it, and plan it in my feeble mind, the more I want to do it. Aside from the fact that the Toyota is just radiating this vibe of an engine that's about to give up the ghost, I think back to all the crazy projects I've done in the last 10 years. Every single one was just as dumb as this one, and most of them pretty much worked. Even the ones that didn't were an experience worth having. Wish me luck. If its' a go, I'll document the hell out of it. Kip On Truckin' |
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| Author: | crash922108 [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:48 pm ] |
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KIP!!! Whats goin on with the conversion its been almost a month 
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| Author: | THOR [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:00 pm ] |
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Shoot, that's almost as crazy as me wanting to put a slant into a Volvo 240... that would be neat.... and it MIGHT fit... Anyways... I have to say that if you start doing this swap, make sure that everything you remove from the truck is spared modification if at all possible. If it becomes too much of a task to put that baby in there for the time you have alotted to work on it, you can still toss the original engine back in there and pray that it will run for another round. Don't leave yourself stranded as a result of modifications to the truck. If I was going to be stranded, I would much prefer it be due to issues in original design (i.e; the 'yota engine), than my own designs... ~THOR~ |
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| Author: | 440_Magnum [ Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:25 pm ] |
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Talk you OUT of turning a piece of Toyota junk into beer cans and replacing it with a slant-6? Not gonna happen  Go for it!
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| Author: | mpgFanatic [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | scary computers? |
Kip, I must admit I enjoy your creativity in considering engine swaps.  I would love to see a slant in a Toyota truck... I'm not sure I'd be crazy enough to try it myself, though.Quote: Going to any engine that's newer or more complex or harder to get parts for makes sense on many levels, but not for me. This swap is about mileage and simplicity and beef, which is what the slant six is all about. And maybe it's me being conservative - any engine with a computer scares me.
For what it's worth, I used to be scared of the same computer issues. Then I forced myself to learn, test, read some more... ultimately, I'm so impressed with how precisely a multiport EFI feedback system can deliver a uniform A/F ratio, that I would never go back. Considering that even a very small mpg increase is noticeable to your needs, it may be worth joining me in letting go of the belief in the carburetor's superiority... (No, such an ingrained train of thought does not change overnight. It took me many, many years.)Quote: Shoot, that's almost as crazy as me wanting to put a slant into a Volvo 240... that would be neat.... and it MIGHT fit...
Um... yea, with a welding torch and a shoehorn and some Vaseline, ya can squeeze in anything... {grin} I'll tell you that the 5.0 V8 does fit in a Volvo 240, but the bellhousing is right up against the firewall and there's just enough room up front for a pulley but no fan-- gotta use electric fans. Surely the inline six would be longer? Sorry, don't have the cars in front of me at this moment to run out and use a tape measure.Though again, I love the creativity. I'm always keeping my eye open for what would be the smallest car that would reasonably hold a slant six in the engine bay. I haven't found many candidates. - Erik |
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| Author: | kipamore [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Swap Update |
Fellas fellas, The slant six, Toyota truck swap, called Slantota, is totally a go. I've decided to throw caution to the wind and make it happen. I haven't been documenting it here on .org because most of it won't really be of interest to slant six people until the engine is in and we get to Phase Two, which will be building a second engine specifically for the truck and specifically to get the best FE (fuel economy) possible. Possibly fuel injection might be an option on that motor. That being said, here's some highlights: 1. The engine will fit pretty well. I'm adamant about using the 8 qt truck oil pan, and that means I've got to fabricate this one brace, but I have a couple of other pans that I can use if I have to. 2. There is a clearance issue with the clutch fork. It could be made to work, but since I'll have the stock Toy hydraulic master cylinder I'm looking around for a concentric style hydraulic throwout bearing. That means no clutch fork, and the slave cylinder lives inside the bellhousing. I can buy the "right" part for $160 or so, but Chevy's and many Jeeps use a unit that goes for a whopping $39, so I'm trying to find the one that fits and then ALL of us M/T slant people have that option in the future. A company called Dorman makes it for the OEMs, I've just gotta find the right sized one. 3. To get a little more clearance for the big oil pan, I'm going with a 2" body lift. The kits for this are about $160, but I plan on using either hockey pucks or skateboard wheels instead. I'm a "cheap Skate". 4. This truck was put together by monkeys. It has NO front bumper - just a flimsy piece of sheet metal I can easily bend with my hands. I have no idea how they got this thing past the DOT in 1990. It's a killer - but it's also a lifesaver because it's nothing to shim the bumper forward, bring the grille and the headlights forward, chop the hoodlatch and go to hoodpins, and NOW you've got plenty of room for a big radiator and electric fans. In a 5mph crash, the radiator will explode and the frame will bend, but that's no different that it was stock. 5. The engine mounts are the only thing that really needs fabb'd to make this swap happen. Angle brackets on the frame rails, and plate steel attached to the stock motor mounts are all that it's going to take. 6. One expense that I'm trying to get around is the speedo/odo. Summit sells a programmable speedo and sensor package for around $200. Anybody got any ideas? Lastly, I have discovered the magic of Pull-A-Part. That place is great and dirt cheap. Shooting for late May to do the whole swap and have it roadworthy. I'm blocking out 6 days to do it, which I think is realistic. Hope so, because failure is not an option. Kip On Truckin |
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| Author: | hantayo13 [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:35 pm ] |
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kip i have some 3 inch body lift blocks .....how many do you need????? shoot me a p m.... i would add a serious piece of steel for a front bumper..... keep on roddin' |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:16 pm ] |
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A bicycle speedo with remote sensor................ I'm not sure if the truck electonics would screw up the reception, so you could just get a normal one, and extend the wiring.... Plus it'll have nice functions like max speed, avg speed, odometer.... |
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