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Turbo choice
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41854		 Page 2 of 8
Author:  Sam Powell [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:10 am ]
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I will try to get you photo of the underhood set up. Although it is hard to tellmuch from a photo. Look at the photo of the grill in the post above, and you can see the turbo output tube bending down right below the left turn signal behind the grill. This goes down to the intercooler, and the output from that turns back under the inner fender and exits back into the engine bay just across from the center of the engine, where the TB sits.

Sam
Author:  Volare4life [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:45 pm ]
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I have a holset HX-35W, not installed not yet, it will be going on my '79 2dr volare , bu ia am going to be moving in about 2 weeks, so i am a lil more focused on that right now lol,

-Mike
Author:  turbo66valiant [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:42 pm ]
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Yes, I am the guy on You-Tube. I did change the intercooler placement for a few reasons. Biggest being the intercooler was becoming inefficient. Only a 12x12 and 3" thick. Heat soak was never really an issue. I would hose it down with water after a run and it has a scoop. I have added a bunch of pics over on my Post, you can check them out there. I didn't want to pollute your posting with all my pics.

http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... &start=240


Later
Ryan
Author:  runvs_826 [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:33 pm ]
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Well, the DSM stuff was all very interesting. It's amazing to read what the "other" guys are doing and how they hold some of these engines together. However, it does makes sense that when trying to make 400-600 at the higher rpms that a bigger holset will be satisfactory. They are producing the exhaust gasses and heat similar to the much bigger diesels at 2500rpm as they are at 6500rpm. Also reading that the boosts will go all the way up to 30 psi like a diesel, but it will read 15(ish) at 3000rpm(ish) you would be leaving the natural torque curves of the slant.

All in all i don't think you want to run the boost levels they are achieving. I haven't built a boosted engine yet, I've simply read read read. Even being so the plan is to start at 8psi and double it later once I've got the Megasquirt talking correctly. I would think that a boosted slant at let's say 10psi should be able to do 300hp that would be 1.33 hp per a cubic inch??? Which I've seen several 340's and such do that.
Author:  turbocuda [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 pm ]
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1. Thanks Sam I'm looking forward to seeing those pics if you can get them.

2. Mike if you get your setup together before I do please let us all know how the Holset performs. For me I wanted to start with the smallest Holset, the HX30 but if your bigger Holset still performs well then the HX30 should work just fine.

3. Ryan I figured that was your car. I've watched your drag runs many times on Youtube and it made me proud of the ol slant and gave me some hope that the slant can go fast. I've thought many times of just dropping a V8 in it and I know theres guys on here that will say if you want cheap power then ditch the 6 for an 8. But i've grown attached to the 6 over the years and like the idea of goin fast with somethin else besides an 8, also because its the numbers matching engine for my car.
I checked out the pics of your new setup and its an interesting route you've taken. Because my car is original(as far as I know) I am very weary about cutting holes in fenders and what not. I'd like to use what space is already there but its so limited. I really like that your still using a carb cause thats what I am going to do also. What have you done with the fuel system to support the turbo? I saw what looked like an electric fuel pump in the back.

4. Runvs yes the DSM guys are using the Holsets in full force now. Some of the fastest DSMs are running Holset diesel turbos. I also have no intention on running 30lbs or anywhere near it. 1 bar at the very most. My car will be a street car not a strip car and 30lbs would call for some serious mods to the slant I am thinking. I am just wanting to do some headwork, cam, maybe a 4 barrel and a turbo and as I said before, try to put out 300+ and show a few imports n V8s what a slant can do with not alot of work :) Hopefully it will workout. I am just trying to figure out what other people are doing and seeing what they are using and maybe get an idea what turbo will work well with my setup. What are you planning to do with your buildup?
Author:  turbo66valiant [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:54 pm ]
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I have the A1000 Aeromotive fuel pump and reg. I think I'm the only one on here using Aeromotive stuff. -8 to the reg and -6 back. -10 to the pump. Here are a few pics of the system I put together for my Dad's 69 Dart. Its a 318ci but you get the jist of it. He didn't want any holes cut in it because its an original 340 car. Boost tubes (3") are behind radiator and alt moved to other side. Tight but works good. Later
Ryan

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Author:  turbocuda [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:31 pm ]
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So how hard is it to tune a carb with a turbo setup? What size carb are you using on your Valiant and have you done anything to it for it to handle boost? I am wondering how far the stock fuel pump can take me. The turbo article on here proved it would take something like 8psi and his idea of boost referencing the pump was a good idea and I plan to use it. I just am not sure what carb to use, what cfm to use or any of that. The guy who wrote the turbo article used the 2 barrel and upped the jet size alot. Not an exact science but it worked. I am thinking now though that to get the most from the turbo i'll have to switch to a 4 barrel but I might start simple and use the 2 barrel thats already on it. What did you decide for a cam? I am thinking of using a GNX spec cam which I have heard works pretty well and in theory I should have a GN style turbo to go with it. The wheels are in my head are startin to turn :)
Author:  turbo66valiant [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:49 pm ]
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I have only boosted thru a Demon and they are known to NOT respond well to boost. I finally got mine right when I extended the vent tubes into the bonnet about 8". We both run the 575cfm Mighty Demon. From what I have discovered is that the smaller the carb (at least w/ a Demon) the easier it is to tune. Now Shaker223 runs a 600 DP and he got his correct right away. I could tune my Demon easily when I disconnected the secondaries. It even ran a quick 11.48 w/ only 2bbls. Any mild (114 lc) or stock cam will work fine. Later
Ryan
Author:  turbocuda [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:11 pm ]
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I was thinking of using a Qjet on mine and ya they flow alot of cfm BUT the secondaries run on vaccuum so it only gives the motor as much as it asks for which I thought would come in handy with part throttle and full throttle runs. I am sure the motor will not open the secondaries up completly but I thought instead of bumping the jets up to richen the mix when I am actually driving it would be to run a larger carb and have the motor tell the carb what it needs instead of my foot telling the motor what it needs. I dunno seems like a good idea and in theory it would work. I'll have to do some reading up on it, I don't know how Qjets respond to boost if at all. Can't say i've heard of anyone running them on anything boosted, might be a reason for that too. :shock:
Author:  runvs_826 [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:28 pm ]
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For my build up? Well, I actually have a black notepad floating around in boxes next to my school books right now that have the turbo maps stapled to the pages with the "points" drawn in them. Also, this is simply what I've researched so if you agree/disagree I simply try to rely information the best I can. I would have to do some refreshing, but it revolves around a 170 with 340hp@7000rpm. Here are some more things to go with what is being talked about here:

Cam Selection - I believe they are called "RV" cams and they are simply a little more than stock. A mild amount of duration and a wide lobe separation are the biggest factors. I believe 240 duration or less and 112-114, I have a cam that happens to align with this that I used with a super six set-up and larger valves.

Head - While head work would normally unlock the most potential, it's needed a lot less with forced induction. Still need larger valves, but keep sane on the compression and porting. In fact simply gasket match your offy to the head and clean up any casting flaws.

I believe that looking on turbonetics and Garret the turbos that come to mind are the GT35r (nothing smaller or bigger). The T60 was on the big side if I remember correctly and the T04E was the smaller one. If you can find a Holset that is small enough go ahead, but I've looked at the 5.9L ones and find them way to large. I've also seen GT42's on 4 cylinders that take 5 seconds just to spool.... so it's how much your budget is and how well you can plan. On a budget I would look for a rebuilt Grand National turbo and spend more time on timing, carb/fuel, and worry less about boost.

Also, an Innovate wide band will help with tuning! Not to mention something that will retard the timing, maybe the other guys can inform you on how they conduct their tuning.

Edit: Looking at the compressor map of the HX-35 it is similar to the T70 Turbonetics as far as pressure ratio versus lbs/min. I had looked at the T61 for around 350hp and it was big enough with fairly good VE.... so this all works great in theory, time to try practical I suppose :wink:
Author:  Dart270 [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:39 pm ]
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I have the T60-1 from Turbonetics - same turbo that the Drakes used on the Simca (still the fastest doorslammer ET - 9.85). This will go on my '68 Dart sometime this winter with a "warmup" at 6psi with a Tial external wastegate. 244 MP cam, ported big valve head, 3.430" bore, and 8.8:1 comp.

Lou
Author:  Shaker223 [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:08 pm ]
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I've heard not to run vacuum carbs because the secondarys may not close under boost. Don't know if it is true or not.

As Ryan said, I do have a Holley 600dp. Around town it is great and still seems to provide good mpg if I don't drive it to hard. Not hard to modify at all. Most time consuming part for me was making the bracket for the boost referenced power valve. This helps (for me at least) the part throttle boost situations. I never had issues at WOT. In the beginning I referenced the stock pump. It seemed to work but didn't want to take any chances so I switched to electric & referenced regulator.

LSA on my cam is 114.
Author:  turbocuda [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:26 am ]
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1. So Runvs if you've got points plotted on maps then I assume you can read one. Perhaps you can give me a lesson on it then because I don't understand the maps that well LOL. Holset oddly enough has a reputation for not releasing their compressor maps for whatever reason. Only thing I saw was some maps a long time ago that someone had gotten and said they were real. Whether they were or not I have no idea. So be careful when looking at "Holset" maps. If they really do have the real ones out there to read thats awesome, keep in mind this was a few years back.

Anyway the HX30 that I was wanting to use is supposed to be similar to a TO4 or a T4 just to give you an idea of its size and perhaps even an idea of its performance level. I dunno to me T60 anything sounds way to big, thats considered a large turbo to the Supra guys and even the Mustang guys running single turbo. When I think of T60 or higher, I think of highway runs, top speed, that sort of thing. Although I guess with the right turbine housing, spooling wouldn't be to bad even on a slant especially with a lightweight compressor wheel and ball bearings. We seem to have a similar hp output with our slant ideas which is nice because some of these other guys are running 400+ and thats a lil out of my league.

Ya I understand the general idea of a turbo cam. Big lift and duration with next to no overlap. Which is why a factory turbo spec cam from another turbo car would work well. Most guys go with a GN spec cam but they have higher performance cams for the GN so we could always go with one of those too just spec it on a slant cam blank. I've heard from other slanters that the GN cam is a good turbo cam to start with so I think thats where I will start too.

As far as head porting goes I hadn't planned to hog the head out of anything just improve the flow by gasket matching and getting rid of the flash and other casting flaws. Theres a good lil write up by DD on porting and lots of posts on it which i've read over the years. Large valves with a 3 angle grind is part of the plan and keeping the compression stock. I have wondered about changing the pistons for forged ones but I read from someone on here that the slant stock can take a 100 shot of nitrous. If thats true then the stock pistons should work for a while especially if I can get the tuning right.

2. Lou how well does the T60 spool on a slant? Yours is probably alot more modded than mine will be so it can probably support a T60 but your setup over the winter sound almost just like mine except I don't plan to bore unless I have to. How fast do you expect to run with that combo? Might give me an idea of how mine would run.

3. Shaker I have no idea at all if there is any issues with vacuum secondary carbs and boost. I don't know anyone who boosts carbed engines unless someone on here knows. It was just an idea that made sense in my head :) Perhaps I will do some research on it and see what I find. Tell me more about the "bracket for the boost referencied power valve" if you would. If I could find a carb that was easy to tune for boost I might just go for that. And you don't have problems running a 600cfm carb on your slant? How much boost do you usually run? How much boost were you running when you were still referencing the stock fuel pump? So you didn't switch to electric pump because the stock one was pukin out on you, you just didn't wanna find out the hard way where its limits were. I gotcha. Good idea. :D
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:32 am ]
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Can't tell you how fast it spools yet, but not bad I bet, based on Drakes' experiences. Car runs mid 16s now, so I figure around 14s or high 13s with 6psi, then who knows when I turn it up.

Lou
Author:  Sam Powell [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:43 am ]
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This is a great thread, which I have followed with much interest.

Lou are you worried about that 8.8:1 compression ratio getting you into pre-ignition? You understand my paranoia about that. Even though that has been resolved for the most part on my set up, that is kind of my first fear now with a turbo car. Maybe it is an unreasonable one, but fears often are.

Sam
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