There are factory connecting rods with notches to direct cooling oil to the bottoms of the pistons. Is it technically better than drilling a hole? Looks easier.
| Slant Six Forum https://slantsix.org/forum/ |
|
| Wiseco / K1 Piston & Con Rod - What is Different? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42837 |
Page 2 of 3 |
| Author: | Shaker223 [ Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Why do you think the oil holes in the rods are necessary? Plenty of engines are running now without them. |
|
| Author: | CNC-Dude [ Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Why do you think the oil holes in the rods are necessary? Plenty of engines are running now without them. There are also engine manufacturers that put the oil spit holes in some OEM rods. They are often a source of failure when used in HP applications. A spray bar would be a better solution for cooling the pistons undersides in apps. using forced induction or other power adders.
|
|
| Author: | Doctor Dodge [ Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The idea is to get oil up to the bottom of the piston head,, to help keep it cool... it also helps keep the piston pin 'happy". I lot of modern engine do forgo the spit hole in the con rod but use a spray system to shoot right at the bottom of the piston... to help keep it cool. I hear you on getting too much oil on the cylinder walls and "flooding" the rings... we will see if that is really an issue with this set-up. (I may have some smokey 1/4 miles passes... but that won't be a "first") DD |
|
| Author: | 60 Plymouth [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I take it the oil spit hole is drilled into the 'top' of the big end, pointing towards the piston? Just wondering, would it be possible to have the con rods line drilled the full length (from above the little end right through to the big end shell) to allow oil to be directly squirted at the piston crown? Admittedly the gudgeon pin may need to be grooved or somthing to allow it but wouldn't this provide both better cooling and lubrication to the pin? At the expense of expense of course. Just thinkin aloud. . . |
|
| Author: | Rug_Trucker [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[quote="Doctor Dodge" I hear you on getting too much oil on the cylinder walls and "flooding" the rings... we will see if that is really an issue with this set-up. DD[/quote] Easier and cheaper way to cool the piston might be water injection. I am not sure how much cooling it can do. For ring seal back in the day they drilled the outer edge of the piston on the top to "gas port" the top ring. It in theory would put pressure on the back side of the top ring. Why are you going to such extremes on this detail? |
|
| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote:
And yes... we have a winner...
What did I miss? I thought the Wiesco piston/K-1 rod combo gave almost a zero deck motor on a 225 block/crank without any machining. Are you building a "stroker"?
The piston tops have been cut-down .140 We now have a true "zero deck" engine with this one. DD |
|
| Author: | Shaker223 [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I know about spray bars and oil squirters....etc. Just seems counter intuitive with all the effort on oil control. What is the application for? |
|
| Author: | Doctor Dodge [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: ...What did I miss? I thought the Wiesco piston/K-1 rod combo gave almost a zero deck motor on a 225 block/crank without any machining. Are you building a "stroker"?
Winner #2... yes, we had to cut down the pistons to get a 4.440 stroke crank into this engine.Another example of: "someone has to do it..." The people here are great... always right-on the issues and have lots of good ideas... As for the added "spit" holes, I will post a photo of them later, they do angle up to aim at the piston top and are in a pretty good place on the rod. (nested in the base of the "H" beam). The the rods are installed so the holes are on the manifold side of the engine so the "shot" happens with the piston high in the bore. And I hear you on the gas ports... Guzzi Mark and I were discussing exactly that the other night... If this combo uses too much oil, we will likely do the gas ports and re-direct the oil spit to the cam side of the engine. DD |
|
| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Now, what about Piston to valve clearence? Might have to make the notches deeper. I have also been thinking about oil cooling the underside of the piston head. I have not looked at the engine itself, but in my head. 1) Just to see if it feasable, epoxie a small copper tube (like for an oil pressure gauge) to the rod, to direct oil from the squirt hole right up to the piston. OR 2) a small oil galley with "nozzels" at the bottom of the bore, aimed up the center of the bore. Either method could be done on a stock short block, with N2O or turbo (and I have all that), for almost no expense, to see if it would work. |
|
| Author: | Joshie225 [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
There are factory connecting rods with notches to direct cooling oil to the bottoms of the pistons. Is it technically better than drilling a hole? Looks easier.
|
|
| Author: | Rug_Trucker [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I am thinking the ports in the top for the ring would be a race only mod. Carbon would build up and plug the holes. Unless you ran water injection. |
|
| Author: | CNC-Dude [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: I take it the oil spit hole is drilled into the 'top' of the big end, pointing towards the piston? Crower and Carrillo both offer a rod that is gun drilled(actually EDM'ed, not drilled) from the B/E to the S/E, a lot of Winston Cup teams use that to oil the pins and bushings. They have their vaccum pumps pulling so much vaccum inside their engines that they literally pull all the oil off the parts and starve components that rely on oil splash to get oil, like wrist pins. Good idea though, but the wrist pin would block the oil from getting past it any farther to oil the underside of the piston....maybe a grooved bushing inside the S/E where the oil hole could align with might be an option. That method would provide a constant spray to the pistons underside. The oil hole in the B/E will only squirt oil at the piston when it is at that moment of angular positioning to do so, the rest of the time it will be spraying everything else since it oscillates and is constantly moving.Just wondering, would it be possible to have the con rods line drilled the full length (from above the little end right through to the big end shell) to allow oil to be directly squirted at the piston crown? Admittedly the gudgeon pin may need to be grooved or somthing to allow it but wouldn't this provide both better cooling and lubrication to the pin? At the expense of expense of course. Just thinkin aloud. . . If you get a chance to pick up a copy of the Porsche 911 Handbook, it shows how the Top LeMans Porsche teams did it with some of their engines back in the 1970's. These engines were running very high boost and HP levels for that time and they claimed that the spray system used cooled the piston temps by over 400°. Its well worth doing for this type of application. Coincidentally, the spray nozzles they used back then is very similar to what most all turbo diesel engines use today to cool their pistons also. It picks up pressurized oil from the main galley going from the mains to the cam. It looks like a Holley gas jet that is threaded into the block pointing up at the pistons. Also Doc, looking back at your original pic, I see that the oil hole is coming out of the side of the rod above the cheek, and not drilled into the beam as the Production rods are. I think the way you have them drilled will not compromise the rods in any way like the Production rods are, and your method is much less likely to have any issues like I was thinking before. |
|
| Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: The idea is to get oil up to the bottom of the piston head,, to help keep it cool... it also helps keep the piston pin 'happy".
I lot of modern engine do forgo the spit hole in the con rod but use a spray system to shoot right at the bottom of the piston... to help keep it cool. DD Has anyone tried adapting underpiston squiters to the slant block? I wanted to try this on ruster's block but kind of got hasty and did not follow through with it. I would think that maybe some of the Newer LS block squiters or the ecotec engine ones could somehow be adapted. Ports would need to be drilled in the oil rail on the Inside block side to do this.. Greg |
|
| Author: | Dart270 [ Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don't like solving problems that aren't there. For a drag engine (very short cycle time), it's hard to see how oil squirters would help without squirting a TON of oil. For a sustained racing app, like road race or Bonneville, or hwy driving under lean conditions, I can see the benefit. Still, interesting stuff... Lou |
|
| Author: | madmax/6 [ Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I agree with Lou 100%.Mark |
|
| Page 2 of 3 | All times are UTC-08:00 |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited https://www.phpbb.com/ |
|