Slant Six Forum :: Pros/Cons On my Cam Choice For Build

Speedy,

The 218 looks ok however, I had mine reground to the RV10 which is 254D and 435 lift per Doc's recommendation. It produces a lot of torque. Delta Cams in Tacoma reground mine for $35.

Don't forget to mention that you and Reed have had valve train noise issues with your Delta camshafts. I know yours got quieter with the Mobile 1, but it shouldn't have been noisy in the first place.

... Personal Note:
The price difference between buying directly from Erson, and having a reground done is mouse nads. Your talking 30 bux, maybe. Buy it from Erson and keep the relationship Erson has with slantsix.org alive! Make sure you tell them your coming to them from slantsix.org!

(Don't forget you can buy lifters and springs in the kit for quite a savings when you purchase the cam...)

2Â¢

CJ

OK, so if I have Oregon regrind my core to the RV15 specs, and I were to consider a looser torque converter (mine is the stock 12" reman w/approx 1200stall if I recall correctly) with all that I'm doing and specs I've given, what would some options be. High dollar items are out of the question, so a max of about $300 is all I can do on one. I'm eyeballing a B&M Holeshot (based on using one 25 years ago with good results and what appeared to be good qaulity at the time, IMO) or a Hughes.....OR???? Not so sure of TCI as I used one a few years ago, a garbage quality $160 "Sizzler"...yes, I got what I paid for on that one, I knew better but....

but maybe there are some others they have to consider? I know the feelings of some who say don't get anything under $400 or else.....but, there are quality ones at my price point. Just want the right one for my setup

Quote:

As Doc wrote, Erson's master cams are going to be different from Oregon's. The cams Doc has gotten Erson to grind do work quite well. I've had very good experiences with Oregon and they are about 30 minutes from home.

If you only have $300 to spend get a stock rebuilt 11" torque converter for your 727 and you should be fine as long as the compression ratio is truly 9:1. A stock 11" converter should be about $100 and can be found easily. Talk to a local trans shop and find out where they get converters. If the shop is worth anything they will buy a quality part to avoid rework and unhappy customers. Transtar shoul dbe fine. http://www.transtar1.com/torque.asp

One other thing. You won't need anything stronger than new stock springs for cams like these so that is a cost savings.

I would not use 340 valve springs. It's too much load and unnecessary friction for this application. If you use 340 springs you need to change the retainers which adds expense. Here is a pictures I took of the 340 type spring with a stock retainer and the proper retainer. The retainers are pushed to the top to show the difference.

Well I guess the cam deal is still going as I talked to Steve @Erson and the cam and lifters package came out to $178.08 ($198.08 shipped)
This for the RV15/295 grind. Seems pretty reasonable to me!! Let the spending begin

Author:	Joshie225 [ Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Speedy, The 218 looks ok however, I had mine reground to the RV10 which is 254D and 435 lift per Doc's recommendation. It produces a lot of torque. Delta Cams in Tacoma reground mine for $35. Don't forget to mention that you and Reed have had valve train noise issues with your Delta camshafts. I know yours got quieter with the Mobile 1, but it shouldn't have been noisy in the first place.

Author:	Aggressive Ted [ Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Don't forget to mention that you and Reed have had valve train noise issues with your Delta camshafts. I know yours got quieter with the Mobile 1, but it shouldn't have been noisy in the first place. Some clarification on noise.......... On my cam, when the valves are lashed at .010 and .020 using Mobil 1 it is as quiet as a hydraulic lifter motor. For more torque Doc suggested that I set the lash at .012 and .022 which adds another inch and half of vacuum at 600 rpm idle to 20" of vacuum. At that setting it starts to sound like a typical SL6. Running looser settings makes it progressively louder.

Author:	Reed [ Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:
I am currently running the lash on the RV10 cam at .012 on both intake and exhaust. However, after adding Mobil 1, the motor quieted down enough that I feel comfortable loosening it up a bit. Tomorrow I hope to do a hot lash session and loosen it up a bit to restore some torque and vacuum. I want to run the .012 and .022 specs mentioned above. I don't know the source of the lifter noise other than the cam profile. DI suggested that the profile is what was contributing to the loud lifters. However, I have always been suspicious about the Delta reground cams. I think next time I will get my cam reground by Oregon cams.

Author:	speedy [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:05 am ]
Post subject:
OK, so if I have Oregon regrind my core to the RV15 specs, and I were to consider a looser torque converter (mine is the stock 12" reman w/approx 1200stall if I recall correctly) with all that I'm doing and specs I've given, what would some options be. High dollar items are out of the question, so a max of about $300 is all I can do on one. I'm eyeballing a B&M Holeshot (based on using one 25 years ago with good results and what appeared to be good qaulity at the time, IMO) or a Hughes.....OR???? Not so sure of TCI as I used one a few years ago, a garbage quality $160 "Sizzler"...yes, I got what I paid for on that one, I knew better but.... but maybe there are some others they have to consider? I know the feelings of some who say don't get anything under $400 or else.....but, there are quality ones at my price point. Just want the right one for my setup

Author:	wjajr [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:15 am ]
Post subject:
I remember when looking for a higher stall converter, the converter vendor asked what the camshaft specifications were. I was unable to give them that information as the camshaft was installed by several previous owners back. What I did tell them was the idle rpm in N & D, rear gear & cruse rpm, for a street driven vehicle. You are at an advantage where you will know what camshaft will be installed, with that information along with rear gear and cruse rpm, a converter company can build you something that fits your build and use that provides good fuel economy, balanced with good performance. The more radical a cam gets the harder it is to adapt an engine to street use. Full race, track use only, is easy, stock build street use is easy, itâ€™s the in between that can get difficult as the build becomes more radical. Once you know idle parameters of your build, and timing curve, and cruse rpm, selecting a stall speed becomes easer. Too high a stall, and the transmission will run hot and fuel economy suffers because the converter never reaches stall speed continuing to slip during normal driving. Too low a stall causes nasty drivability in stop & go traffic where the converter is stalling at idle making the car chomp at the bit when stopped in gear, and constant shifting to â€œNâ€ to get it to settle down when crawling along or stopped. Additionally; generally stall speeds are specked out for higher torque producing V8 engines. When a given stall speed converter is installed behind a six cylinder that published speed becomes higher than actual stall speed when used with a six cylinder engine. In other words if you were to purchase say a 2600 rpm stall unit, it will stall at a much lower, perhaps 1800-2200 rpm behind our slant six. You will need to discuss this difference with the converter folks so there is no misunderstanding of your goal, as well as how efficient said converter will be when street driven.

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Author:	ceej [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:35 am ]
Post subject:
I'm running a converter that stalls behind my slant at 2500 rpm. It's pretty streetable since I drive on 3.50 gears. What is your normal cruise rpm? Make sure the stall is lower than that. If cruise is at 2250, your going to want to stall at, say, a maximum of 2000 rpm. Otherwise you will cook the giblets out of your transmission. Personal Note: The price difference between buying directly from Erson, and having a reground done is mouse nads. Your talking 30 bux, maybe. Buy it from Erson and keep the relationship Erson has with slantsix.org alive! Make sure you tell them your coming to them from slantsix.org! (Don't forget you can buy lifters and springs in the kit for quite a savings when you purchase the cam...) 2Â¢ CJ

Author:	Doc [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:01 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: ... Personal Note: The price difference between buying directly from Erson, and having a reground done is mouse nads. Your talking 30 bux, maybe. Buy it from Erson and keep the relationship Erson has with slantsix.org alive! Make sure you tell them your coming to them from slantsix.org! (Don't forget you can buy lifters and springs in the kit for quite a savings when you purchase the cam...) 2Â¢ CJ More important... all the different cam grinders have there own set of lobe "masters" and masters are not created equally. One "254" duration master at cam grander "A" can be very different then the "same" 254 duration master at cam grinder "B"... Take it from experance... every time I get a cam from a different grinder, I am back to "square one" as far as what it will run like... even when the cam card show the same specs. Here are the specs to the two RDP cams we engineered with Erson. The big difference with these cams is they both use of the old Mopar Performance 244 cams exhaust lobe profile. I sent Erson a un-used MP 244 cam from the 1970s and had them make a master of the exhaust lobe profile. (they now have a "master") If you use different masters to make RDP cams to match these specs... my guess is that they will be a little different. The biggest concern is always the shape (profile) of the lash ramps. DD http://www.dutra.org/dutraorg/pictures/ ... m-212-.jpg http://www.dutra.org/dutraorg/pictures/ ... am60bd.jpg

Author:	Joshie225 [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:20 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: OK, so if I have Oregon regrind my core to the RV15 specs, and I were to consider a looser torque converter (mine is the stock 12" reman w/approx 1200stall if I recall correctly) with all that I'm doing and specs I've given, what would some options be. High dollar items are out of the question, so a max of about $300 is all I can do on one. I'm eyeballing a B&M Holeshot (based on using one 25 years ago with good results and what appeared to be good qaulity at the time, IMO) or a Hughes.....OR???? Not so sure of TCI as I used one a few years ago, a garbage quality $160 "Sizzler"...yes, I got what I paid for on that one, I knew better but.... but maybe there are some others they have to consider? I know the feelings of some who say don't get anything under $400 or else.....but, there are quality ones at my price point. Just want the right one for my setup As Doc wrote, Erson's master cams are going to be different from Oregon's. The cams Doc has gotten Erson to grind do work quite well. I've had very good experiences with Oregon and they are about 30 minutes from home. If you only have $300 to spend get a stock rebuilt 11" torque converter for your 727 and you should be fine as long as the compression ratio is truly 9:1. A stock 11" converter should be about $100 and can be found easily. Talk to a local trans shop and find out where they get converters. If the shop is worth anything they will buy a quality part to avoid rework and unhappy customers. Transtar shoul dbe fine. http://www.transtar1.com/torque.asp One other thing. You won't need anything stronger than new stock springs for cams like these so that is a cost savings.

Author:	speedy [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:32 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: OK, so if I have Oregon regrind my core to the RV15 specs, and I were to consider a looser torque converter (mine is the stock 12" reman w/approx 1200stall if I recall correctly) with all that I'm doing and specs I've given, what would some options be. High dollar items are out of the question, so a max of about $300 is all I can do on one. I'm eyeballing a B&M Holeshot (based on using one 25 years ago with good results and what appeared to be good qaulity at the time, IMO) or a Hughes.....OR???? Not so sure of TCI as I used one a few years ago, a garbage quality $160 "Sizzler"...yes, I got what I paid for on that one, I knew better but.... but maybe there are some others they have to consider? I know the feelings of some who say don't get anything under $400 or else.....but, there are quality ones at my price point. Just want the right one for my setup As Doc wrote, Erson's master cams are going to be different from Oregon's. The cams Doc has gotten Erson to grind do work quite well. I've had very good experiences with Oregon and they are about 30 minutes from home. If you only have $300 to spend get a stock rebuilt 11" torque converter for your 727 and you should be fine as long as the compression ratio is truly 9:1. A stock 11" converter should be about $100 and can be found easily. Talk to a local trans shop and find out where they get converters. If the shop is worth anything they will buy a quality part to avoid rework and unhappy customers. Transtar shoul dbe fine. http://www.transtar1.com/torque.asp One other thing. You won't need anything stronger than new stock springs for cams like these so that is a cost savings. I was considering the stock rebuilt converter idea, there's quite a few viable options on those, and going with the 340 valve springs. I guess the cam and lifters are all I'd need from Ersom or where ever I get them from. The only HD/preformance item I definately want is a double roller timing set, not the stock type. Ah the fun of it all! Starting to pull the trigger on stock piling parts....should have my block work done by the end of next week.

Author:	Joshie225 [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:54 am ]
Post subject:
I would not use 340 valve springs. It's too much load and unnecessary friction for this application. If you use 340 springs you need to change the retainers which adds expense. Here is a pictures I took of the 340 type spring with a stock retainer and the proper retainer. The retainers are pushed to the top to show the difference.

Author:	speedy [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: I would not use 340 valve springs. It's too much load and unnecessary friction for this application. If you use 340 springs you need to change the retainers which adds expense. Here is a pictures I took of the 340 type spring with a stock retainer and the proper retainer. The retainers are pushed to the top to show the difference. True, seeing how I doubt I'd be reving the thing to anywhere near a point of floating valves, the stock springs would be adequate. I just hate scrawny little retainers and soft valve springs and the fact I can push 'em down with one hand and just abou t remove them without a valve spring compressor (doubtful ) Does'nt scream "performance".....Just a mental thing I guess, like some other things in life!!

Author:	Joshie225 [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Sure, but are those valve springs you can compress with one hand new or 40 years old? Less friction is more performance.

Author:	speedy [ Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:
They're at least 30 years old for sure, unless the cylinder head rebuilder (Dover) put new ones in, which is doubtful. Can only trust they were good either way. Regardless, new springs are in order.

Author:	speedy [ Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:10 am ]
Post subject:
Well I guess the cam deal is still going as I talked to Steve @Erson and the cam and lifters package came out to $178.08 ($198.08 shipped) This for the RV15/295 grind. Seems pretty reasonable to me!! Let the spending begin

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Author:	emsvitil [ Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Well I guess the cam deal is still going as I talked to Steve @Erson and the cam and lifters package came out to $178.08 ($198.08 shipped) This for the RV15/295 grind. Seems pretty reasonable to me!! Let the spending begin With or without springs?