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Street or road race springs
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48577		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Can you get urethane?
Author:  Reed [ Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #72 ride height
Quote:
dodge van E150 or E250 springs in the rear, the short leaf is flipped over to flatten the pack.
(1) The "E" designation is for Ford vans. It is short for "E"conoline. Dodge vans are "A" vans (for the A100s and A108s made in the 60s) or "B" vans for the 1970 through 2003 models.

(2) Could you provide a bit more info about using the van spring pack? Was it a direct bolt in? How did it fit? Did it change ride height any?
Author:  Mike_64_Valiant [ Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rug_tucker they want almost $60 for a whole rear end kit for poly. And only $4.40. Per bushing in rubber.

I have used poly in the past on lots of other rides but my budget is so short right now. I was so ticked the other night to find out I didn't have what I needed. I still need to get all new brake lines ran. Get the front suspension put back together. Finish the engine and start moding the floor and trans tunnel for the T-5, then measure and have the drive shaft shortned. This is a never ending project.
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Rug_tucker they want almost $60 for a whole rear end kit for poly. And only $4.40. Per bushing in rubber. .
Ouch! :shock:
Author:  ValiantBoyWonder [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:58 am ]
Post subject: 
not trying to start a dreaded "poly vs. rubber" war here :roll:

but, i bought some poly bushings for my leaf springs a year ago. As soon as we lowered the car she started creaking. To this day, the back of the car creaks. i get down there every once in awhile and spray the bushings with WD40 and that quiets them down for a bit.

just saying :wink:
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
not trying to start a dreaded "poly vs. rubber" war here :roll:

but, i bought some poly bushings for my leaf springs a year ago. As soon as we lowered the car she started creaking. To this day, the back of the car creaks. i get down there every once in awhile and spray the bushings with WD40 and that quiets them down for a bit.

just saying :wink:
There is a grease that comes with some front end kits. I think it was something that lasts a long time.
Author:  Mike_64_Valiant [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Poly bushings are the better way to go if you are wanting the stiffer bushing for energy transfer and long life span. In my pre-runner Dakota and rock crawler Cherokee I had all poly bushings and was constantly washing out the grease in the bushings and having to re-lube to get them to stop squeaking.

But due to budget restrictions right now I went with the trusty old rubber ones at half the cost. And seeing as they are super easy to change out I can replace them down the road if they start to give me any issues.

With the 5 leaf 1" under packs installed and on the ground the leafs are almost flat with a very minimal arch to them. So they should handle nicely.
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
You can always drill and tap for a Zerk fitting.
Author:  ntsqd [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
A little late in the game, but....
I've been told that most urethanes do not get along well with petroleum products. Petroleum products apparently oxidize urethanes that aren't somehow treated to resist this.

Silicone greases work well, it is what Energy Suspension supplies with their products. Can buy a big tub of it from Baker Precision. One tub is probably a lifetime supply for most neighborhoods.
What I'd like to know is how different it is from silicone dielectric grease. It may be that dielectric could be used, but I don't know this.
Author:  2 Darts [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
One of the things you may want to consider for truly hard cornering would be something to locate the rear axle so that it won't shift from side to side. This prevents the springs from rolling over allowing the tire to possibly contact the body of the car.
A Panhard rod (also called a track bar) is the simplest of these. It's drawback is that produces a different response in left and right turns since it is attached to the axle at one end.
A Watt's link is a little more difficult animal but since it is attached at or near the middle of the axle allows for a more uniform response in turns.
Typically, there is adequate travel in the rear suspension from stock height that the Watt's line does not interfere with jounce. There is more than enough rebound travel so that the Watt's link does limit downward travel. The Panhard bar similarly restricts downward movement on the side attached to the rear axle.
Author:  Mike_64_Valiant [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have built my own track bars for off road so I know I can do that but I have been thinking about a Watts link set up. How ever not any time soon. If I find that I am having problems with Lateral movement then I will look in to it but most mopar guys say they have little to no problems.
Author:  ntsqd [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm having trouble understanding some of the statements made. I suspect that they were edited for brevity and nuances were lost.

Panhard bars should be as long as practical to fit. This so that the arc of the travel path of the axle end is as large of a radius as possible. At some point in both jounce and rebound the bar will bind the springs due to it's lateral dislocation of the axle housing. Can't remove this "feature", can only work to minimize it.
The tube used in the bar should also be as big of an OD as is reasonable to fit under the car. It doesn't necessarily need or want to have a thick wall. The tube's strength in tension isn't an issue, but it's strength and rigidity in compression can easily be an issue. Wall thickness is a linear gain here; OD is an exponential gain. It is possible to build a larger OD based bar that weighs the same as a smaller OD - thicker walled bar. The larger OD bar will be beyond just significantly stiffer.
If the bar can flex then there will be a difference in behavior between turn directions. This flex is also the reason for avoiding bends in the tube. Bends turn it into a spring. The bigger the bend, the more of a spring the bar becomes.

Watts Links are held up to be a solution, but they too travel in an arc - an 'S' curve to be exact. The geometry of the layout has to be very specific, try to gain more ground clearance and the travel path will either go screwy on you or the "sweet spot" of nearly perfectly vertical travel will be reduced in height.

The lateral locator design that I'd like to try out is described in one of Allan Staniforth's books and is called the WOB Link. It to has very specific geometry, but I haven't modeled and played with it well enough to understand it's nuances, yet. Maybe never.

One thing to keep in mind when considering any lateral axle locating device is that the rear suspension's Roll Center will be determined by it rather than any of the other suspension features. Where you want to position that is a can of worms. Are you a stiff springs and no-roll bars kind of person; or a soft springs and lots of roll bar kind of person?
I can offer no advice as almost all of my road racing experience was with IRS or live axles with coils and factory linkage.
Author:  Reed [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Are you a stiff springs and no-roll bars kind of person; or a soft springs and lots of roll bar kind of person?
Float like a butterfly, corner like a bee. 8)
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Speaking from the standpoint of running maybe 100 hrs of road course track days and time trials, I can say that I have not seen a big problem with stock type springs with poly bushings on mid-60s A-bodies. Almost all Mopar handling cars I know, even with slicks, do not have track bars and do very well.

The flex of the axle side to side, even with sticky DOT autoX tires (treadwear 180 or 200) is < 1/2". Unless you are running really sticky tires or have a heavy car, I don't see the need to do this.

All this said, I agree with ntsqd's statements about designing such a device.

I have not tried any lateral locating device, but I probably will eventually. I don't expect much difference, but I could be wrong!

My 2 cents,

Lou
Author:  ntsqd [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I see using one more as a way to tune the Roll Center & Roll Axis than solely for lateral location needs.
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