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Electric Radiator Fan Choice & CFM requirements
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Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:10 pm ]
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Do these alternators have built in voltage regulators? for a one wire hook up? Straight to the battery?
No, they hook up to '70-up type external Mopar regulators. I don't like internal-regulator alternators; it means if the voltage regulator fails you're stuck replacing the entire alternator (which you probably don't have a spare of in the trunk). With an external regulator, if it fails it's one plug and two bolts and you're back on your way.

There are internal-regulator versions of the Nippondenso and Bosch alternator, but they weren't originally used in Mopar applications.
Author:  Mroldfart2u [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:16 pm ]
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I would do the clutch fan if I were simply wanting to take away some parasitic loss but I'm mainly doing it to avoid heat soak after turning off the car.
Not to rain on a parade BUT I THINK (my opinion) heat soak doesnt happen in the radiator after shut off. It will still have heat soak unless you are also circulating the coolant also... Or so I thought.
Just my thoughts is all...
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Thanks for the responses guys!
Aspen76
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:59 pm ]
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The "heat soak" in question is primarily a question of carburetor temperature, not engine or coolant temperature. Carb temperature can be kept down by blowing air through the engine compartment with the radiator fan after engine shutdown. This was a common practice in the 1980s on vehicles factory equipped with carburetors and electric fans.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:08 pm ]
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Right on Dan! Good info.
Thanks...
Now I need to find the right vehicle to get one!

On the two 10" or 9" electric fans, they minimizes the heat soak issue if you have a good heat deflector. I like them allot since they don't draw much current and help move air near the top of the radiator tank where the heat collects and blow towards the exhaust manifold and carb. They push the air down past the transmission so you feel a nice blast of warm air when you open the car door.
The single 16" electric fan never did that....
Author:  70valiant [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:27 am ]
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Amp draw on an electric fan is misleading, yes, they have a heavy draw apon start up but once running the power to run it drops significantly.

Heat soak wont be relieved unless you have it set up with a timer so that the fan(s) run after the car is shut off.
I ran a 16 inch pusher from a Mercedes on my Valiant and Swinger with great results.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:33 am ]
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Quote:
Not to rain on a parade BUT I THINK (my opinion) heat soak doesnt happen in the radiator after shut off. It will still have heat soak unless you are also circulating the coolant also... Or so I thought.
Just my thoughts is all...
What I have been experiencing for many years now running electric fans is that after a long run 120 miles coming home at night I shut off the car, heat soak starts in the engine, the thermostat opens and dumps more hot water in to the radiator tank. The temp sensor in the radiator tank kicks on at 200, which engages the fans, runs for about 10 minutes and shuts off, cooling down the radiator, engine, and carb. No timers needed, it is all automatic. It blows just enough air over the heat deflector so that the carb only gets luke warm. On super hot days I have heard the fans kick on again for a short period of time after the initial cool down. It is self regulating. If I need to run somewhere 30 minutes later, it fires right up! No extended cranking like a stock engine.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:49 am ]
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Amp draw on an electric fan is misleading, yes, they have a heavy draw apon start up but once running the power to run it drops significantly.
From "very high" to "high", yes it does.
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Heat soak wont be relieved unless you have it set up with a timer so that the fan(s) run after the car is shut off.
Ted's method works without a timer. The problem with a timer is that unless it's an extremely good one, you risk the timer sticking "on" and flattening your battery. It shouldn't be necessary to run the fan for prolonged periods after engine shutdown. Keep in mind once you start back up, your alternator will have to work hard to replenish the power taken from the battery to run the fan. That's the second good reason to make the charging system good and stout before you put together an electric fan setup.
Author:  70valiant [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:54 am ]
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I am not arguing that they require power but in standard form I couldn't tell on my cars when the electric fan came on, even at night in the rain with the heat on. Slants are notoriously cold blooded. It takes very little to keep the temp under control if your cooling system is working correctly, even if you live in a hot climate.
Author:  aspen76 [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:28 pm ]
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Hey guys,
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The car in question (if it is the poster's '76 Aspen) already has a "squareback" alternator. The 1972-up "squareback" alternators (and the electrically identical '70-'71 dual-field "roundbacks") came in a wide range of output ratings, just like the '60-'69 single-field roundbacks. Cars optionally factory-equipped with 60- (or 65-)amp alternators had heavy-duty charging system circuitry and ammeters to cope with the extra current;
Yep, I was talking about my 76 Aspen. (only car I got :D) After reading this, I decided to go out and look at my current alternator for a clue as to what I currently have running. I found 2 set of numbers cast into the alternator and this sticker. (Casting numbers were 05111 & 4091424)

Image

I looked up the 1st number on the sticker and got this. Am I currently running a 65 amp alternator? If so, will my aspen have the electrical capabilities to do a dual fan set up and HEI? This had factory AC when I got it (didn't work) and currently is missing the compressor (I took it off as it wasn't working and it was blocking the super six air filter housing), so no AC anymore. I mention this because this might account for it having a higher output alternator?

Thanks for all the response you guys,
Aspen76
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:39 pm ]
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Your car presently has a "remanufactured" alternator on it. No telling what it originally came with unless someone will help you decode the fender tag. This alternator, like all other variants of the Chrysler finned-frame alternator, does poorly at low RPM. Proceed with the charging system upgrade; you'll be glad you did.
Author:  aspen76 [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:01 pm ]
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Will do! I do notice the head lights do fade in and out slightly at idle, now I know why.

Any suggestions on a replacement alternator? I just keep finding re-manufactured units or Chinese copycats. I need something reliable and preferably cheaper than $200. Also, the less modification I need to do to the bracket the better. Not that I won't attempt a complicated modification, but I tend to make a catastrophe of the simplest automotive jobs. Bad for me, cause I love working on my car...

Thanks for all the help,
Aspen76
Author:  Jeb [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:11 pm ]
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Oh a Reman alternator.

In that case you really don't know what it is. It could have parts from 3 different alternators in it.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:32 pm ]
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Quote:
Any suggestions on a replacement alternator?
Nippondenso unit off an '89-'91 Dodge truck or (full-size) van with 3.9 V6 or 5.2 or 5.9 V8, pulled out of the wrecking yard and taken to a reputable local auto electrical house for a bench rebuild. Can also grab the same nippondenso alternator (which looks like sort of a 5/8-scale version of the alternator you have now, with slots all around the housing) from a 2.2 or 2.5 litre front-drive Mopar. If the one you get doesn't have a V-belt pulley, one can be swapped on at rebuild time. Some of these vehicles have different alternators (Bosch or different Chrysler) that are much larger physically than the Denso unit. Try for the Denso item, it really is the best of the bunch.

Bracket mods are minimal and simple: shave about 1/8" from the lower "foot" bracket so the narrower-spaced alternator "ears" will fit, and get one of those universal chrome curved slider brackets to replace the factory straight slider.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Alternator bracket for 1989 Nippondenso alternator
Dan,

I picked up a good looking totally stock dual pulley 1989 alternator from a Dakota pickup, I dropped it off at the Rebuilder in Kent, WA yesterday to have it gone through. I am getting ready to install it. In your comments you mentioned buying a unique alternator bracket.....I assume the stock bracket will not work.
Quote:
get one of those universal chrome curved slider brackets to replace the factory straight slider.
Can you elaborate on what I need to do and where to get the bracket?
Use also mentioned shaving the stock SL6 alternator mounting bracket. The front or rear? I would imagine this would affect belt alignment, so I want to shave the right portion of the bracket.

I have the dual 10 gauge wires, conduit sheath and the two 50 amp breakers. Do I really need 4 breakers? or can I use two 10 gauge fuse-able link wires at the alternator post?

By the way I got part of the wire harness which is clearly labeled. I noticed they are running a 8 gauge ground wire. Should this be run to the chassis? I have a common bolt on the frame that all my grounds go to, under the battery.

Thanks.....

PS does the GM HEI module do anything to boost or stabilize the output from the distributor trigger? Just curious......
I was looking at the new Rev-N-Nator ECU and see that they boost the output of the trigger signal. http://www.thertgarage.com/products.html It was featured in the November issue of MOPAR Muscle magazine. Nice idea, but very pricey......

Thanks for the help.
Author:  mcnoople [ Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternator bracket for 1989 Nippondenso alternator
Quote:
I was looking at the new Rev-N-Nator ECU and see that they boost the output of the trigger signal. http://www.thertgarage.com/products.html It was featured in the November issue of MOPAR Muscle magazine. Nice idea, but very pricey......
Cars magazines are very bad about hyping products that are given to them for free and then telling how great it is. This is a standard magazine paragraph= "We've just installed this new part we recieved from acme products and now we've regrown our receeding hairlines, the cutie from the coffee shop smiled at us, and we finally caught that pesky roadrunner in a trap."

And I have a 225 slant six my rev limit was determined more than 50 years ago
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