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A Question About Timing An HEI Distributor
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51036		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Last item...
Quote:
Distributor - 3874714
1976 EI distributor for Dart/Valiant Federal/Canada with a manual transmission:

Your mech advance (in dist.degrees at distributor rpm):
1-4.5 degrees at 450 rpm
4-6.5 degrees at 650 rpm
7-9 degrees at 2500 rpm

Mopar says to set the initial timing at 6BTDC at 750 rpm...you should be able to set it at 10BTDC given that it's not "all in" until drag race rpms (more like 14-16 degrees at the crank at well past highway speeds)

Quote:
Have checked the Acceleration Pump and it seems to be working just fine. But the strange thing is that even with a couple of spritzes of Starting Fluid, Lorrie's Engine doesn't even cough.
I'm thinking vaccuum leak...You might try and use an unlit propane torch to feed gas into the throat of the carb to 'richen it up' without using a lot of liquid fuel. Usually the spark will take on propane...

The only time I've seen an engine not take on starting fluid, the engine lost all compression (lost both head gaskets on a mid-70's 318, pushed the engine way to hard that day...), so hopefully it hasn't gone there...

If it doesn't start, you might look at getting a compression tester( or grab a buddy with one) and see what the cold readings are, then run them again with some oil in the bores...


-D.idiot
Author:  Reed [ Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Hey Reed,
Are you passing the flu around amongst the people around you?
Nope. I just got back from the doc and it turns out I have a sinus infection. Whee. That's what I get for flying to Long Beach, CA.

Listen to DI. He knows what he is talking about here.
Author:  JCAllison [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Last item...
Quote:
Distributor - 3874714 - 1976 EI distributor for Dart/Valiant Federal/Canada with a manual transmission:
Hey Mr. DI,
Well, it is NOW in a 1967 Dodge P200 Postal Van with an Automatic Transmission.
Quote:
Your mech advance (in dist.degrees at distributor rpm):
1-4.5 degrees at 450 rpm
This would be 2-9 Degrees at 900 RPM at the Damper.
Quote:
4-6.5 degrees at 650 rpm
This would be 8-13 Degrees at 1,300 RPM at the Damper.
Quote:
7-9 degrees at 2500 rpm
This would be 14-18 Degrees at 5,000 RPM at the Damper.
Quote:
Mopar says to set the initial timing at 6BTDC at 750 rpm...
This would be at the Damper?
Quote:
You should be able to set it at 10BTDC given that it's not "all in" until drag race rpms (more like 14-16 degrees at the crank at well past highway speeds)
Alas Mr. DI, Lorrie is capable of going only about 65 MPH top speed, seeing as to how she has all the aerodynamics of a huge cinder block!

On one occasion, had a twenty MPH tail wind, and a slight down hill grade. That was the only time I've ever seen Lorrie's Speedometer needle at 70 MPH.
Quote:
I'm thinking vacuum leak...
Don't suspect a Vacuum Leak because Lorrie was running just fine one day, and there was nothing done to her, but the next day she wouldn't start.
Quote:
You might try and use an unlit propane torch to feed gas into the throat of the carb to 'richen it up' without using a lot of liquid fuel. Usually the spark will take on propane...
Will give this a try.
Quote:
The only time I've seen an engine not take on starting fluid, the engine lost all compression (lost both head gaskets on a mid-70's 318, pushed the engine way to hard that day...), so hopefully it hasn't gone there...
Lorrie's MIGHTY 225 Slant Six has never been pushed "way too hard". And the amount of Start Fluid used was minimal.
Quote:
If it doesn't start, you might look at getting a compression tester( or grab a buddy with one) and see what the cold readings are, then run them again with some oil in the bores...
A Compression Tester was going to be the NEXT equipment acquisition. Will get it next time we are in Livingston.

Have some running around to do today, and when we get back, will be trying to start Lorrie's Engine. Will let you know how it goes.

Anyway, thanks for the GREAT information.

JC


-D.idiot[/quote]
Author:  JCAllison [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Nope. I just got back from the doc and it turns out I have a sinus infection. Whee.
Hey Reed,
OUCH! Sinus infections are no fun.
Quote:
That's what I get for flying to Long Beach, CA.
That's Southern California. I was raised in that area.
Quote:
Listen to DI. He knows what he is talking about here.
He is coming up with GREAT information and suggestions.

Will keep you all updated.

JC
Author:  JCAllison [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey All,
Installed a NEW set of NKG ZFR5N Spark Plugs in Lorrie Van Haul's MIGHTY 225 Slant Six Engine.

Turned on the Run Switch.

Hit the Start Switch.

Lorrie coughed.

Hit the Start Switch again, and...

LORRIE VAN HAUL'S MIGHTY 225 SLANT SIX ENGINE ROARED TO LIFE!

She immediately settled into a 700 RPM idle.

Ran the Engine till it was at operating temperature, then shut it down and let it sit for a few minutes.

Turned on the Run Switch, hit the Start Switch, and the Engine came to life with just the slightest touch from the Starter.

Now, Lorrie's Engine Cabinetry needs to be reinstalled, but am going to drive her for a week or so to make sure she is going to be reliable before putting all the Cabinetry back into place.

JC
Author:  Mroldfart2u [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Hey All,
Installed a NEW set of NKG ZFR5N Spark Plugs in Lorrie Van Haul's MIGHTY 225 Slant Six Engine.

Turned on the Run Switch.

Hit the Start Switch.

Lorrie coughed.

Hit the Start Switch again, and...

LORRIE VAN HAUL'S MIGHTY 225 SLANT SIX ENGINE ROARED TO LIFE!


JC

:D :D :D :D :D Ummm I think I tole ya so....


HYAW,



MRO.....
Author:  JCAllison [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
:D :D :D :D :D Ummm I think I tole ya so.
Hey Dusty,
Now what I should do is take out the NEW NGK ZFR5Ns and put the OLD ones back in and see if she will run with them just to see if in fact it WAS the Spark Plugs.

JC
Author:  Reed [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
:D :D :D :D :D Ummm I think I tole ya so.
Hey Dusty,
Now what I should do is take out the NEW NKG ZFR5Ns and put the OLD ones back in and see if she will run with them just to see if in fact it WAS the Spark Plugs.

JC
That actually might not be a bad idea since you are chasing an intermittent problem. Maybe wiggling the wires fixed it.
Author:  JCAllison [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
That actually might not be a bad idea since you are chasing an intermittent problem. Maybe wiggling the wires fixed it.
Hey Reed,
There wasn't any wiggling of wires, other than removing the MSD 8mm Spark Plug boots from the NKG ZFR5N Spark Plugs, replacing them with a NEW set, and reinstalling the Boots.

This was done at the urging of Mr. Oldfart (Dusty), who postulated that somehow Spark Plugs can have their spark suppressed by the compression in a Cylinder.

The OLD Spark Plugs fire when removed from the Cylinder Head, put back into the Boot, grounded, and with the Run Switch ON, the Start Switch Activated.

But Lorrie's MIGHTY 225 Slant Six Engine wouldn't start until the NEW NGK ZFR5N Plugs were installed. Go figure.

JC
Author:  Reed [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Odd. Well, I'm happy it is working for you!
Author:  Mroldfart2u [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
That actually might not be a bad idea since you are chasing an intermittent problem. Maybe wiggling the wires fixed it.
Hey Reed,
There wasn't any wiggling of wires, other than removing the MSD 8mm Spark Plug boots from the NKG ZFR5N Spark Plugs, replacing them with a NEW set, and reinstalling the Boots.

This was done at the urging of Mr. Oldfart (Dusty), who postulated that somehow Spark Plugs can have their spark suppressed by the compression in a Cylinder.

The OLD Spark Plugs fire when removed from the Cylinder Head, put back into the Boot, grounded, and with the Run Switch ON, the Start Switch Activated.

But Lorrie's MIGHTY 225 Slant Six Engine wouldn't start until the NEW NKG ZFR5N Plugs were installed. Go figure.

JC
The only reason I had been so adamant about the old plugs is I have had the same thing happen to me before, relatively new plugs getting so gas fouled that under compression they would refuse to fire. Although you did oil the cyl to make for sure compression was there and not washed away, the spark wasnt strong enough under pressure with the old plugs. You might try the plug swap if you wanted to but I dont think i would bother going thru the procedure again, it goes to say "if its not broke......"



MRO.....
Author:  64ragtop [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Don't we ALL hate intermittent problems??? Glad she's running, but that sudden no-start situation, all the tinkering and fussing, and suddenly she runs! just don't seem right!

ATB

BC
Author:  JCAllison [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Don't we ALL hate intermittent problems???
Hey Mr. 64RT,
It seems to just be part of messing with these old vehicles.
Quote:
Glad she's running, but that sudden no-start situation, all the tinkering and fussing, and suddenly she runs! just don't seem right!
Have been doing some research, and have come across a description of the problem of why NEW Spark Plugs make the Engine run while not so new Spark Plugs won't. It has to do with the Porcelain Tip getting covered (fouled) with whatever it gets coated, and then the electricity is routed through that stuff to ground without jumping the gap. The Porcelain in the Plugs that were just removed have a medium Tan color. Have always thought that THAT was a sign that everything was alright. But am now beginning to wonder.

It also may have to do with how Lorrie is driven. She seldom gets any long distance usage. It's mostly just to drive around town, and she never really get heated up.

Am going to have to continue with the research. It may be that the NGK ZFR5N Spark Plugs are NOT best suited for Lorrie's MIGHTY 225 Slant Six Engine with the NEW HEI System. Also it may be that the -0.045 Gap is not optimal.

Am in a pretty steep learning curve here.

JC
Author:  JCAllison [ Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Odd. Well, I'm happy it is working for you!
Hey Reed,
Went out to move Lorrie Van Haul so that Ms. American could be put where she has been sitting in order to work on Ms. American's distributor, and would you believe that LORRIE VAN HAUL WOULD NOT START!

Start Fluid wouldn't even make her cough!

Don't have the slightest idea what is wrong with her.

JC
Author:  JCAllison [ Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey All,
Charged Lorrie's Battery for four hours @ 2 amps. Got it from 12 Volts to 12.54 Volts.

Gave the Carburetor a one second shot of Start Fluid. Gave it NO Throttle. Hit the Starter. SHE STARTED RIGHT UP!

What was different this morning? It was 50 degrees out. This afternoon it was 70 degrees out.

Am going to try to start her tomorrow morning the same way that she started this afternoon.

Will let you know what happens.

JC
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