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Roller Cam
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53424		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Billet caps are a good idea also, and their pretty cheap. Im doing my block now as soon as I receive the caps.
Author:  USAJon [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Billet caps are a good idea also, and their pretty cheap. Im doing my block now as soon as I receive the caps.
Nitti's (spelling) $15K motor builder told me he used 440 billet caps slightly mod to fit.
Author:  ceej [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
If the dang power will stay up long enough I'll reply this time.

He went to Billet. 440 source caps. No girdle.

Variations to finish grind of roller cam:
LSA, not much. Will find out more next week.

Duration, perhaps as much as ±10°

Lift He will look into how much this can be changed.

Dave uses Crane 440 BB Mopar roller tappets. He says they drop right in.
About 400# open on the springs. K-Motion springs.

CJ
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Billet caps are a good idea also, and their pretty cheap. Im doing my block now as soon as I receive the caps.
Nitti's (spelling) $15K motor builder told me he used 440 billet caps slightly mod to fit.
That's what i'll be using too.
Author:  Dart270 [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the research and work on this, CJ! \

I suppose when I try to make over 450-500 HP I will do the billet caps... I really doubt they are needed below that, unless you want to spin crazy RPMs.

Lou
Author:  USAJon [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The nitride iron cams varied as far as life span. He was recording around 50-75 full runs with most of them IIRC.
I think he had more on the last one. Not sure that it failed. He was flirting with Nitro fuel and busted a main cap.

CJ
was it the front aluminum main cap.

I've seen pics of this coming apart from accidental supe high revs.
Author:  ceej [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
No. He broke an iron cap. He has since replaced it with Billet Steel.

Don't remember which. I want to say it was number two. He may have cracked more. That's the one that came apart.

CJ
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think for the Slant only having 4 mains, and most all other inline 6's have 7 mains, billet caps are a good upgrade for it, regardless of the HP level. Its just inexpensive insurance.
Author:  ceej [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
The fun part is getting the machine work done.

The thrust for the 440 is too narrow. Use it for a pen holder on your desk! :lol:
The spare main cap has to be modified to become the new Slant six thrust cap. A pass over a surfacer, or belt sander will do the trick.

From there, the new caps need to be line bored, then line honed. Since it's billet, whoever is cutting them will need to be prepared to go through some tooling.

Next up: Get Crower to remember they built PN CA47792 and make some new billet cranks. This time with something other than a slant six flange. :roll:

CJ
Author:  USAJon [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
what's the real time frame on the cam..

6 months /mo/less..
Author:  ceej [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
There is no time frame. This is a special, and it will take time to work up. Could be six months. Could be next month. Without interest, it goes away again.
It's not likely to be cheap. It's not likely to be easy. We aren't taking any money. You will need to work things out directly with OCG once Dave gives them the go ahead.
Once we move forward, we'll give you the green light to get your order in.

I need to brow-beat Crower into finding the specs on the crank they built some years back, then get something other than a slant six flange on it. :lol:

CJ
Author:  USAJon [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
well this is a no answer 2my question

has anyone tried old skool Isky "hard face overlay"

I put a call in 2Isky and wait info.

was told to call back 4Ron Isky on subject..

will call 2moro....
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  No...
Quote:
has anyone tried old skool Isky "hard face overlay"
The real problem is the normal material for our flat tappet cams is really soft and there is really no way to get the base material to be the same hardness all the way through without switching to a better uniform metal for the blank. Buick GN barely got away with using ductile iron in their blanks for street cars (ductile iron is used in industrial cast iron pipes, the type used in chemical treatment plants)...billet steel is the better choice as it will be homogeneous without soft spots or impurities that will affect the final grind on the blank.

With a stocker blank it's russian roulette, you can hard chrome/nitride/chem dip/hard face a stock cam blank (and the new after market ones), but the face will be brittle and the material under it will be soft (think about how fun it is to drive over a tarmack road that was laid onto sand with no packed gravel or underlayment...the sand compacts, the road gets a sinkhole and you are out suspension and a tire and rim...imagine how a roller lifter feels after it mushes a divot into the lobe and the hard facing material buckles then crumbles off of it).
Basically Dave gets longevity out of his by getting towed to the line, shutting it off, pushing it to the end of the staging lane, firing it up when called forth, running his race, pulling into the return road, shutting it off and getting towed back around again...he tears the engine down yearly to check the cam for wear and oilpan for nitrided coffee grounds. The material has to take the extreme shift in seat pressures that the almost straight up and down profile a roller lobe needs at high rpm and high lift.

I've already spent 2 years chasing this rabbit through the hole: I talked to the Cox brothers when they had a couple of blanks on the shelf (no oil/distributor gear on the blanks..I didn't want to pay $600 for the blank, then $200 for a grind, then $1000 for the distributorless ignition, and another lump of $$$ for the external oil pump), Schneider cam had saddle roller blanks (if the cam has any movement to it in the block front to back the saddle lifters will grenade the cam and engine), checked for cheaper material (it's about the same cost to get a set of billet blanks made as it was to get a 20 blank minimum group buy on new cast ductile iron).

No matter what (physics, metallurgy, chemistry, process hardening), it all comes back to the need for the blank to have a uniform hardness to the material...that's billet, none of the old school guys will be able to help , they will just apply and old process that is a temporary measure with no longevity to the conventional material that is available over the counter...or they will just say "get us a billet blank and we can grind it for you..."


2 cents,

-D.Idiot
Author:  ceej [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
I called Dave a few minutes ago. We will ping Ken and see where he got to with the billet process.
Dave has a couple more rabbit holes we are getting ready to wander down as well. If they go anywhere, we'll bring them to the track prior to airing them on the public forum.

On the bright side, the line bore is done on my billet caps! :D

CJ
Author:  ceej [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Made some more progress. Hopefully we can get a timeframe and work through some of the unanswered bits soon. :D

CJ
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