Slant Six Forum :: Drool tube Hydraulic Head Question

The lifters were not removed at all. So they are just as he drove it in the garage.

Sam, where are these shims found? All I have seen were home made and I know many people split the rocker towers using them.

I measured a known uncut head and this one was very close to that one, which is what Ryan expected. The head he is using was the one that was on the Slantkota.

Again, how long does it take for the pressure to bleed off if they are pumped up? Is there any way to bleed them down? other than what Charlie said? It is a drool tube head so they can be removed if we need too.

Rick

to understand your formula.

The quick run down.

Huge overbore 3.592
Stroked 4.250
Valves are 1.86/1.5 - 11/32 stem
240 dur@50 .518 lift cam
570 Street Advenger 4 barrel vac secondary.
CR somewhere between 5:1 and 14:1 (9.25:1)

Warning - Not for the budget minded.

wonder what length they are

I made my own Rocker shims from Some Old Door Sheet Metal..

Drilled the proper sized hole in them and Cut them to fit the Footprint of the rocker pedestal and they work fine.

Author:	Sam Powell [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:32 pm ]
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Quote: The lifters were not removed at all. So they are just as he drove it in the garage. Sam, where are these shims found? All I have seen were home made and I know many people split the rocker towers using them. I measured a known uncut head and this one was very close to that one, which is what Ryan expected. The head he is using was the one that was on the Slantkota. Again, how long does it take for the pressure to bleed off if they are pumped up? Is there any way to bleed them down? other than what Charlie said? It is a drool tube head so they can be removed if we need too. Rick I think Mancini sells them. I have a set I will give you if you cannot find them. Sam

Author:	DadTruck [ Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:00 pm ]
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Quote: to understand your formula. a couple of rum and cokes and all is good,, if at the max depth, yes one would consider nominal lifter piston travel, to do so one would remove distance, hence a subtraction, the lifter piston is moving up,,,going to get smaller,, aint going to get deeper than physically possible, will consider again tomorrow,, ahead of the R&C

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:44 am ]
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Sam. I have a new set but hated to use them if not needed. I would really like to know what is going on either way.

Author:	Sam Powell [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:36 am ]
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I ran them under the rocker shafts on my 360 with no ill effects. However, you MUST not over torque the bolts. Thinking back. I think I ran a pair on each shaft perch, and trimmed the top one of the pair so the sides did not come up as high. Sam

Author:	sixinthehead [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:46 am ]
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As I understand it, when the lifter is 'up' (on the lobe), the oil hole is blocked so the lifter cannot bleed down. That's why Charlie said to turn the engine now and then so that each lifter has a chance to bleed. I've had to pull the plugs and spin the engine over for a while on some vehicles (worst offender was a Geo Metro) to get the lifters to settle.

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Author:	Charrlie_S [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:59 am ]
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OK. This is a suggestion, as I am really not familiar with the top oiling slant six lifter. On side oiler lifters you can take a paper clip or other thin wire, and push down on the "valve" through the top oil hole. This will allow the oil to come out of the lifter. You need to put pressure on the plunger while releasing the valve.

Author:	DadTruck [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:24 am ]
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and it could be 12 stuck lifters,, but it could be a valve train stack up issue.. do you know what valves are in Quote: "eileen" ? if they are non stock length,, that would throw the valve train geometry off when matched with stock push rods and a stock cam.. can you compare the mechanical push rods that were used with Quote: "eileen" ,, to a stock mechanical push rod for length.. did a search and found this info that brentcuda904 had posted,, wasn't this the engine called eileen ? Quote: The quick run down. Huge overbore 3.592 Stroked 4.250 Valves are 1.86/1.5 - 11/32 stem 240 dur@50 .518 lift cam 570 Street Advenger 4 barrel vac secondary. CR somewhere between 5:1 and 14:1 (9.25:1) Warning - Not for the budget minded. if this is the engine that you are using the head from note the valve size and stem diameter,, wonder what length they are?

Author:	slantzilla [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:22 am ]
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John, now that I have had some sleep I see my error. I was thinking backwards as usual.

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:44 am ]
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Quote: wonder what length they are I am guessing this is part of the issue.

Author:	ryandcovalt [ Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:13 pm ]
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John, You are correct that "eileen" is the engine that brennan built and the specs you have listed are what I know about the engine. It does have large valves and they do appear to be a little taller than stock when we tried to measure them. So that seems like part of the problem. I am going to pull the lifters tomorrow and see if I can get them to compress. If not I am going to try a new set of lifters that dad had and see what happens. If all of that fails then I will assume that the valve stems are too tall and then try to figure out how much shorter I will need push rods. Hopefully I will have some luck tomorrow.

Author:	Dart270 [ Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:27 am ]
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Since the cam/lifters and valve train were working when he went to start the swap and have not been removed from the engine at all, I would have to say it is something to do with the new head and pushrod length. Good ideas on the extra lifter pump up, but that should not hold for many hours. Has anyone run a solid lifter head on a hydraulic motor? I know folks have done it the other way, but... My guess is that the pushrod length is not right for the rocker stand height (relative to block deck) on that head. Lou

Author:	Exner Geek [ Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:37 am ]
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If the valves are longer than stock it would have the same effect as milling the head. Avoid shimming the rocker shaft if at all possible. I tried to grind the shims to a proper half moon shape and still cracked some rocker stands. That's why the rocker shaft on the race engine is mounted with studs. Shorter push rods are the solution but must transfer oil like AMC. You can cut a section out of a pushrod and then tap each end so that you can put in a piece of threaded rod and make your own adjustable pushrod for measuring. The threads don't have to be deep, just enough to hold the threaded rod in place.

Author:	Greg Ondayko [ Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:16 am ]
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I made my own Rocker shims from Some Old Door Sheet Metal.. Drilled the proper sized hole in them and Cut them to fit the Footprint of the rocker pedestal and they work fine. They are all the same thickness and they were malleable enough that the Tightening of the rocker shaft formed them into the shape needed. \ This is on my street Duster/volare Probably about 40,00 Miles and 8 Years ago... Haven't had it apart since and runs fine. (non Hydro Head) Greg

Author:	WagonsRcool [ Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:50 am ]
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Quote: I made my own Rocker shims from Some Old Door Sheet Metal.. Drilled the proper sized hole in them and Cut them to fit the Footprint of the rocker pedestal and they work fine. You have to be careful or lucky. It depends on tolerance stack up. I had one head that was fine with a 0.030" shims, but it split one tower with 0.050" shims. I had to drill & pin the crack, then squeeze the tower together with a hardened bolt. I made "moon shaped" shims (thinner on the sides than in the middle) & all was good. Just a note: if you have longer than stock valves you should check rocker-to-valve tip geometry. You might be ok as-is, or you might end up with side thrust on the valve stem & irregular guide wear (BTDT as well).

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Author:	ryandcovalt [ Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:54 pm ]
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Well, I just finished up working on the truck about 10:30. I went through all of the options/suggestions for the hydro lifters and the only real option was to have pushrods made. This engine is a temporary one while I get my engines built so instead of buying custom push rods I decided to just put the mechanical valve train and solid lifters in. I thought the adjustable rockers would fix the problem since this head and exact setup was previously on the slantkota (eileen) engine. However the valves were tall enough that even with the adjustable rockers the rocker arm and pushrod end were interfering and would not allow me to adjust the valves properly. I am assuming that the custom ground cam that was used with this head earlier probably had less on the backside of the cam lobe and still left enough clearance and valve adjustment because of it. So I ended up having to grind some material off of the rocker arms to allow clearance for the pushrods. Now after all of that the engine is together and running. I have been told that solid lifters on a hydraulic camshaft is not a good combination but I wasn't sure what the reasoning was behind that and I am hoping that the setup is good for a temporary fix until I get the next engine built. The valve/rocker arm geometry doesn't really look very good to me, it does look like it is on a rather steep angle so I will need to look into that too. Thanks for the help with this, I never thought i'd have so much trouble swapping the heads like that but now I know for next time i guess! Hopefully the setup will hold up for a while.