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| Long rod motor piston choices https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57308 |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:48 pm ] |
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If they are 7.0" rods then it is a 198. But Jasper could have dropped a 225 crank in the 198 block and that would explain the -.177 deck height. Going by what Doc said that is about .100 farther down the hole than it should be for a 198. Rick |
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| Author: | Reed [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:53 pm ] |
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But I measured the stoke at 3.5 inches. I guess I really need to tear this thing down and see what is in there. :shrug: I'll try and at least get a part number off the crank the weekend, if not pull the crank and measure the throw. It would be humorous if Jasper unknowingly built a long-rod motor (225 crank, 198 rods) but used the wrong pistons. 
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:37 pm ] |
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The drama continues!  Hard to tell what pistons are in there.
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| Author: | Reed [ Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:41 pm ] |
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Yeah. I think I need to tear this thing completely apart and see what Jasper did.
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| Author: | Doctor Dodge [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:53 am ] |
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Quote: If you are already that far down the bore, sre you sure it is not a 225?
Vote #2 that - .177 deck height sounds like what we commonly find in a 225 engine.Pull-out the spin #3 piston / rod assembly and give us the con rod forging number. ( that piston needs to come-out anyway... for rod "servicing") Also look at the centre counter weight of the crank for the crank's forging number. Does the crank have the big pilot hole? (all 198 cranks are large pilot) DD |
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| Author: | Reed [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:56 am ] |
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Quote: Quote: If you are already that far down the bore, sre you sure it is not a 225?
Vote #2 that - .177 deck height sounds like what we commonly find in a 225 engine.Pull-out the spin #3 piston / rod assembly and give us the con rod forging number. ( that piston needs to come-out anyway... for rod "servicing") Also look at the centre counter weight of the crank for the crank's forging number. Does the crank have the big pilot hole? (all 198 cranks are large pilot) DD Good suggestions and questions, all. I will pull the lifters and pan, flip it over, pull the #3 rod, get a crank part number, and get back to you. Thanks! 
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| Author: | Reed [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mystery Motor identified |
Well, my high hopes were dashed. I pulled the #3 connecting rod and found part no. 220554 cast into it. I guess it is a 225 after all. The only number I found on the crank center counterweight was a solitary "8." However, all crank counterweights show signs of machining, so maybe the rotating assembly was balanced and the number removed? The crank register diameter is 1.8 inches. Anyway, I am not too disappointed. This simplifies the decision making process quite a bit. While I was in the bottom end I pulled all the connecting rod caps and inspected the bearings and journals. #s 1 and 6 look nice and shiny and new. Bearing shells marked .010 undersize. However, the connecting rod bearings on #s 2, 4, and 5 were all wearing badly. Without further disassembly it is hard to determine why the connecting rods were getting starved for oil from the center out. However, I have a guess. The oil pump drive gear looks in good shape and the wear pattern on the teeth is nice and centered. But the outside of the engine around the oil pump if filthy and covered with oil. Zorg mentioned that the motor was leaking oil badly. My suspicion is that the motor blew a gasket around the oil pump which caused a catastrophic loss of oil pressure and starved the connecting rod bearings of oil. This lead to the rapid wear of the connecting rod bearings and crank journal and the ultimate seizure and disintegration of the #3 con rod bearing. EDIT: I just pulled the Microguard brand oil filter- it was bone dry inside. No oil. Microguard oil filters are supposed to have anti-drainback valves. An empty filter supports my conclusion that the oil was going somewhere else beside it the pump and into the oil gallery. C'est la vie. The rest of the motor looks like a very recently rebuilt engine. No ridge on the cylinder bores, the lifters slid out of their bores with no effort at all. I am thinking I can get a 225 crank kit and have a remanufactured short block to stuff my accumulated goodies in. It does need a new timing chain and the cam shows some wear I don't like (the fuel pump lobe has a visible dip in it), and I want to carefully inspect the pump (the cover has the kidney bean shaped bumps on it) and possibly replace it. So, with new gaskets, a new crank and bearings, and a new timing set, I think I will have a rebuilt short block to play with. Good enough for me!  Anybody want to buy a SINGLE NOS 198 connecting rod? UPDATE: Napa wants $304 plus tax for a reman crank and new bearings. I can have my local machine shop regrind the crank for about $150 and even if i have to buy a new 225 connecting rod I can get the crank reground, new bearings, and a new con rod for under $220. Looks like I will be pulling the crank in the future and getting it ground and then putting this engine back on the road. 
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| Author: | Doctor Dodge [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:04 am ] |
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I have many good used 225 con rods... many with good pistons still attached. I will see if I have a .060 As for the no oil on start-up detective work... look for the following "clues". - Check to see if the forward oil galley plug is installed. - Carefully look into the oil pump's intake port and see if the relief valve looks "stuck open"... then remove the oil pressure relief valve, looking closely for crud or burrs that could hold it open. (remove everything onto a clean, white paper plate) - Inspect the oil pump drive gear & impeller head. Is either one spinning on the shaft? - Inspect the oil pick-up tube. Clogged or cracked at the threads? DD |
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| Author: | Reed [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:51 am ] |
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Thanks Doc. I found large chunks of the oil dipstick in the pan amongst the remains of the #3 con rod bearing, so something seriously wrong happened in the sump. I will check all the areas you mentioned. I strongly suspect a problem with the oil pump but haven't had a chance to pull it and inspect closer. It will be fully disassembled, though. Right now, I have to get back to dealing with the stripped out oil drain plug hole in the oil pan on my brother's 06 Grand Caravan. Some lousy quick-lube worker cross-thread and then overtightened the plug, stripping the threads in the pan.  I am crossing my fingers that an oversize drain plug will work.
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| Author: | DadTruck [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:40 pm ] |
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Quote: engine around the oil pump if filthy and covered with oil
I remember seeing a post about some oil pump bodies having a sealing surface that does not match to the block pump mounting surface,,I'll look around for it... found it,, http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic ... e16842fcdc |
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| Author: | Reed [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ah! That could very well be the problem! My quick inspection indicated that the oil was coming from a corner of the oil pump. I will have to pull it and take a closer look. Thanks for that link! |
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