Slant Six Forum :: So. This happened. (there's a reason illegal u-turns are...)

Practice due diligence to get a "more fair" shake from the insurance companies: Years ago my oldest son and I worked at "refurbishing" a very nice low-mileage 75 Valient Brougham. Just for fun, and on the advice of Pemco insurance folks, we kept ALL receipts for parts and outside labor, and kept a time sheet logging our personal hours spent each day of the project, including exactly what task we did each entry. About 2 years later, he totaled the car due to someone else's fault, per the State Patrol. The other driver's ins. co. offered "high value" of $1500.00. we argued, stating that the car had just been refurbished & painted. They had to hire an independent adjuster to review our receipts and hours to determine a more realistic value. The adjuster apologized, because though I am a professional aircraft mechanic, I'm not a professional auto mechanic, so he could only value our hours spent at the state's minimum wage level at that time. With our hours multiplied by minimum wage rate and allowed receipts totals, we were paid $5400.00 for the total, and we had first right to purchase the wreck from the insurance co. at scrap value. So for $456.00 we got to strip it of everything usable for our other projects. Beats $1500. Lesson: keep an honest detailed time sheet, and keep your receipts. That's for everyday normal insurance. If you have a show car, then insure it as such, with the restrictions that apply. That's my story.

Author:	'67 Dart 270 [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	...some more
That all said, the board sponsors would have to OK it. This is their forum, it has to be respected. b

Author:	coconuteater64 [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:59 am ]
Post subject:
Free legal price is worth what you pay for it. I have been down this road a few times in my life, and to me it is worth going to a brick-and-mortar building to speak face-to-face with an attorney. Nothing against the lawyers on this board, but you have to realize the liability they face even if they offer a disclaimer. Not only that, laws vary from state to state, so what might be best practice in one state may not be legal in another. Personally, I wouldn't seek surgical consultation over the internet, I would sit face to face with a doctor. And lawyers are, essentially, doctors of juris prudence. I've had to sue three times over a car; it's the cost of driving an antique.

Author:	shadango [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:47 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Practice due diligence to get a "more fair" shake from the insurance companies: Years ago my oldest son and I worked at "refurbishing" a very nice low-mileage 75 Valient Brougham. Just for fun, and on the advice of Pemco insurance folks, we kept ALL receipts for parts and outside labor, and kept a time sheet logging our personal hours spent each day of the project, including exactly what task we did each entry. About 2 years later, he totaled the car due to someone else's fault, per the State Patrol. The other driver's ins. co. offered "high value" of $1500.00. we argued, stating that the car had just been refurbished & painted. They had to hire an independent adjuster to review our receipts and hours to determine a more realistic value. The adjuster apologized, because though I am a professional aircraft mechanic, I'm not a professional auto mechanic, so he could only value our hours spent at the state's minimum wage level at that time. With our hours multiplied by minimum wage rate and allowed receipts totals, we were paid $5400.00 for the total, and we had first right to purchase the wreck from the insurance co. at scrap value. So for $456.00 we got to strip it of everything usable for our other projects. Beats $1500. Lesson: keep an honest detailed time sheet, and keep your receipts. That's for everyday normal insurance. If you have a show car, then insure it as such, with the restrictions that apply. That's my story. I am sort of (very) surprised to hear that the insurance company did this. I am no attorney. But I watch a LOT of court TV stuff...LOL.....my fave is Peoples Court....Judge Millian rocks! But I digress.... She constantly preaches about how the idea of the court is to make people "whole"......and for vehicles, its always blue book value. I have seen folks try and get $4k for repairs on some really nice older cars worth $2k bluebook and all she can award is the $2k....the laws dont allow for more.....regardless of what someone has into the vehicle. So naturally I figured that insurance companies would follow the same practice.....never figured that an insurance company would even CARE what you spent, time or money, on refurbing a car 2 years prior..... I insure my barracuda using antique insurance that is "agreed on value" in the case of a total situation......I have damn near every receipt I ever had for this car and it totals way more than that....LOL.... I guess the only other way to go would be to have an actual appraisal done and documented maybe?

Author:	Louise76 [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:
Yeh, I guess this could have been considered an appraisal after the accident.

Author:	csheehy [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:59 am ]
Post subject:	Hit me up
@imanexcellentdriver get hold of me - I owned an insurance adjusting company (for several years) and was a licensed appraiser & adjuster for auto, motorcycle, heavy equipment, and specialty vehcles (like yours). Spent 21 years in the auto industry - perhaps I can lend some insight.

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So. This happened. (there's a reason illegal u-turns are...) https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60562	Page 2 of 2

Author:	shadango [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:15 am ]
Post subject:
So...who decides what is a "special interest " car versus just an old car?

Author:	csheehy [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:11 am ]
Post subject:	RE: "special interest"
@shadango Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. Seriously though, it typically just signifies an uncommon vehicle (by today's standards). Doesn't necessarily imply collectability or of having significant value. "Special" goes as far as you want to insure it $$$ or how much risk an insurer is willing to cover it.

Author:	Louise76 [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:42 am ]
Post subject:
Slightly off track, but- My friend in the sales business says that it DOESN'T MATTER what the thing is actually worth. It matters what you the salesperson can get the customer to PERCEIVE it is worth that matters, ie, "PERCEPTION OF VALUE". Colleges give Bachelor's, Masters, and PHd's in the science of getting you and me to buy stuff we don't want or need. 4 years of high school Latin taught me this: "Caveat Emptor": "let the buyer beware". I'm low budget.

Author:	csheehy [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Perception
Correct. Not to get too deep in insurance stuff... but In most cases, it is easier as a claimant (victim) than going through your insurance, though. The sole exception is if you are insured with a specialty insurer like Hagerty, those contracts are quite different than the standard car policy. Also, there is the possibility in some states for collecting for Diminished Value, which is the perceived loss in value the vehicle suffered following an accident - even after proper repairs. This is over and above all other settlements. There are firms that specialize in this type of work in most states. An insurance company is only - contractually - obligated to pay what the vehicle is worth on your policy. This vehicle value is defined and outlined somewhere in your policy (referred to as ACV, Actual Cash Value, or Stated Value). Unless you notified them (your insurance co.) of any refurbishments and or customization, your policy is likely only to pay for standard book value (NADA most common). As a claimant, however, it's a different ball of wax; you're not bound by your contract/policy limitations. The paying company, in that case, is obligated to indemnify you for your loss, which in this case would include refurbishments and custom work so as long as it can be verified or otherwise corroborated. They (paying insurance company) will need papers and proof; it's stated in every policy I've seen as well as within most every state; that insurers are bound to pay no-more & no-less than what is customary and fair for the repairs to an auto. There's plenty of wiggle room in that statement. In all cases, providing itemized part descriptions, list pricing, and sources along with shipping costs will usually assure you get the exact parts you need to repair your vehicle - and speed up the claims process. Don't forget to include notes for procedures, such as unibody/frame repairs, paint matching, paint blending, buffing or hand-sanding beyond adjacent painted panels, under coating, rust/corrosion coatings, sealants, fasteners, hardware, torque settings, wheel alignments. Also, be sure to note what trim and glass needs removal for proper painting processes and add new gaskets for putting some things back together if the gaskets are not reusable. All this is fair and customary. Just be fair - if your car is mostly stock, demand factory parts; otherwise, pick the aftermarket vendors you prefer. You actually have more influence for how your car gets repaired than you might realize.

Author:	imanexcellentdriver [ Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:
So the adjuster came by today and took some pictures...said it'll take a few days for them to get back to me. I'll give you a shout, csheehy, if they come back with something unreasonable. In reality, it's not that much damage and almost all bolt on parts so, aside from paint, the big drag is finding the parts...but at least now I get to pull the fender off and hammer it back into some sort of shape so I can drive her (in daylight).

Author:	Killer6 [ Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Free legal price is worth what you pay for it. I have been down this road a few times in my life, and to me it is worth going to a brick-and-mortar building to speak face-to-face with an attorney. Nothing against the lawyers on this board, but you have to realize the liability they face even if they offer a disclaimer. Not only that, laws vary from state to state, so what might be best practice in one state may not be legal in another. Personally, I wouldn't seek surgical consultation over the internet, I would sit face to face with a doctor. And lawyers are, essentially, doctors of juris prudence. I've had to sue three times over a car; it's the cost of driving an antique. Curious reply, since that is exactly NOT what is being proposed, unless somehow the posts from the 18th are missing on your screen.

Author:	75valiant [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:53 am ]
Post subject:
we have a forum (actually, more than one) for lawyers in my state, but you have to be a lawyer to be able to log in. the problem comes from someone relying on their interpretation of your words, then having disastrous results, and then claiming to the bar that it's your fault. i simply won't do it. that's not the same as lawyers having a conversation, which is what the forums here do, but it has to be limited access to protect the innocent. funny how many attorneys are old car guys! i love my driver-quality 75 4 door valiant, because even though i could likely never replace it at this point, at least i don't have a fortune tied in it if the unfortunate were to occur. i have learned to get my jollies off of cheap things, like old cars, guitars, boats, etc.

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