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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:32 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:25 am
Posts: 831
Location: Tompkinsville, KY
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Have you successfully run that fan assembly on anything before?
A slight bend/vibration might not show up to the eye but could be torture for the bearings, especially with the little extra leverage of the spacer.

In my experience, repeat failures like that usually have an external cause. One defective pump I can see, but three is unlikely.

Maybe test run a different fan next time, or go ahead and swap to the electric.

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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:17 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 8834
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Yes the same set up was run for a while on the same truck a year or so ago. It was Ryan's then and it was only on the road for a couple weeks. It was not run long but it was much longer than the 2-3 hours we are getting! It was taken off the road for other reasons.

I had Denny go out this afternoon and removed the tension from both belts. I asked him to try and move the water pump shaft and he said there is no play on the bearings. So that lends itself to the seal issue not a bearing issue from vibration...ect.
Quote:
One defective pump I can see, but three is unlikely.
Possibly, but it can become a lot less unlikely if one company is machining all theses 8 blade impeller pumps? I would normally agree with you, but I'm not sure on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:33 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:55 am
Posts: 1425
Location: Brightwood, VA
Car Model: 1965 Plymouth Belvedere I
I hate to ask, but are you certain the fluid is from the weep hole and not leaking from another source (bypass) and just dripping off the engine at the weep hole? (just grasping at straws).

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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:49 am 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:25 am
Posts: 797
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Car Model: Highly Modified Chevy S10 Race Truck
Quote:
...Possibly, but it can become a lot less unlikely if one company is machining all theses 8 blade impeller pumps? ...
Maybe the companies making these water pumps are all buying the same faulty seal from a single supplier.

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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:55 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 8834
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Quote:
I hate to ask, but are you certain the fluid is from the weep hole
Yes it is easily seen. On the 2nd failure I pumped up the radiator with my pressure tester and it only got to a couple pounds and it started pushing new green fluid right out.

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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:14 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 8834
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
I finally got time to go over to Denny's and pull the 3rd water pump off of the truck. The bearings in the pump are not loose at all.No play is felt! I'll take a picture but I'm not sure what I'm looking at. The "used" water pump I put on the truck is working fine. Who knows for how long! I did remove the clutch fan and installed an old 4 blade fan we had laying around temporarily. I will install an electric fan for a permanent solution. I see nothing that can be causing this other than a seal or seal machining issue. I'd really like to know what it was.

And just for info. Joshie mentioned the Airtex water pump being one that had 6 blades, and thus may be a different manufacturer. So I ordered one and guess what? It came in as an 8 blade pump also from Mexico. The same place the last bad pump came from! So who knows.

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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:38 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
I was wrong about the 3rd pump. It actually had 6 blades. Still came from Mexico.

Here are some pictures. Not sure what I'm looking at?? :roll: :roll: It did look like the teflon (white ring) and the spring were up on the shaft a little higher than the "used" one I put in. Could that be the problem?
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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:42 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Houston
Car Model: 68 Valiant
I can't see that well enough but it looks like the entire seal has walked up out of the housing, which is what I'd expect. But, I can't see it well enough so I could be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:07 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 8834
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
So does the spring hold tension on the seal?

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!
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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:40 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Houston
Car Model: 68 Valiant
I actually need to shut up because I can't see your pic well enough and I also don't know enough about 225 pumps to start handing out advice. For what it's worth, here is a new 8 blade pump...I think it is a Gates but not sure. The spring, I think, is intended to hold the seal in place. It looks like your top collar is moved toward the impeller more than mine. But that could be a difference in manufacturer, too.

If yours is bad, I'd try taking it apart and looking for where it failed.


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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:01 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
I think that seal belongs on the other end of the shaft. It shouldn't be on the impeller end, but the housing end. It's a face seal that is spring loaded against the housing. If you have a press you can take it apart. The 1966 Dart and Coronet manual shows how.

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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:13 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 8834
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
I am not disassembling the old one. Advance gave me my money back so I didn't want to take it apart. When I dropped it off the Advance counter "kid" said maybe it was a new high performance pump or internal parts. I suggested that a "new" high performance pump still probably should not leak when running. :wink: He insisted that he had definitely seen that with high performance pumps! I told him I was pretty sure that the Slant 6 engine was not a performance engine and this pump was probably not a high performance unit. :lol: He said, Oh yeah. I didn't bother to blow his mind by telling him my car ran 12.80's and my son's ran 11.000! :D :D

The next used pump I get I will pull it apart so I can really tell what I am looking at.

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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:29 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 13
Location: Metro Detroit
Car Model: 1968 Dodge Dart
Did you ever determine the cause of the repeated water pump failures?


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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:20 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 8834
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Nope, I pulled a used pump off my back up engine and installed it and it has not given us any problems.

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!
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12.70 @ 104.6
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 Post subject: Re: Water pump failure?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:04 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Moderator
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:27 pm
Posts: 14638
Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model: 68 Valiant
Real race cars use electric pumps from agricultural sprayers. :mrgreen:

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