Don't even know if they make for my 63, admit have thought about it. Holding judgement until they become more common and I can get some feedback....Dave

Hmmmmm. Have you given the strut rods a thorough inspection? If I'm not mistaken, those control front/back movement, and if that right one is broken inside the bushings, that may explain the pull you feel during braking. Seems to me that would cause a severe toe-out moment during braking that the LCA bushing might hide when not under stress. (Flexing back to normal position after stop is completed.)

Another possibility, (unlikely), might be a broken, (bent?), LCA shaft, letting the control arm shift around during turns or braking. (I would think you'd have lost that LCA by now, though, giving you a memorable ride. )

Here's something you might want to try. Put the front on stands, SECURELY! Remove that front wheel/tire. Get your largest/longest pry bar, and try forcing that spindle backwards, (with the end of the pry bar braced against a solid "frame" component), as if you were bringing the car to a stop. (You might need a muscular buddy.) Watch the LCA, LCA shaft and attachment points, and strut rod and attachment points while doing this. See if you can spot excess movement in any of those components. That may give you enough clues to track down the root of the problem. I could be reaching with these ideas, but I'm sure you'd rather find it on stands than at speed on the freeway.

Hmmmmm. Been a long time.....how does a T-bar mate with the LCA pivot shaft?

Roger

I just re-read the string again.

Are you saying the car has done this since BEFORE the bears did thier weight training with it?

RE; You twisting the LCA; You, with human muscles, can twist the LCA? Are you actually twisting the LCA, while the inboard end stays stationary, and deforming the LCA? Or are you twisting the LCA bushing(s), and the LCA doesn't deform?

Sorry to sound nit-picky, but the clarification may lead us to a clue or two.

Roger

Allow me to explain, yes can twist the bushing w/o deforming the lca, Didn't own it when the bears did the weight training session, but have the 8mm home movies and eyewitness reports this would have occurred over 35 years ago. Could the fact the first owner drove it for years with the torsion bars cranked all the way up be a contributing factor? Here's a mystery that has never been resolved and have lived with for 7 years. When making a left turn at under 10mph on uneven pavement or transistion from the street into the driveway, the right suspension will produce a groaning and tearing sound followed by a sharp thud that can be felt from the seat, you get the sensation the entire front end is being ripped loose. In all other driving conditions this is not present nor is it present on right hand turns. Have rebuilt this front end twice and everything checked out (or so my front end shop advised me) can't help but think this is related to my premature ball joint failure. BTW have pwr steering also. Any ideas?

It sounds like someting is popping out of place as back ward, and inboard pressure is placed on the right front end. What happens when the car returns to straightaway? Do you hear things popping back in place? Everything I can imagine happening during the turn would have to reposition itself, and that should make noise also. I am now suspecting the big rivits in the LCA are loose. Put your crow car in between the two halves of the LCA, (front and back) and see if you can pry them apart. I also like GTS225's thoughts on the front strut.

Here is a concern I have about all of these old Mopar A bodies: Moog no longer makes the proper bushings for the front strut mount on the small bolt pattern frotn ends. They SAY they do, but if you look, the ones they sell for the small bolt pattern are the same as the large bolt pattern part, which is bigger. This cocks the LCA back about 1/4" further than it should be. If you use a late model Large bolt pattern front strut, then the later part will work fine. OBVIOUSLY, your front end shop is missing something, and things are not right. I am sure you can fix this if you simply take at apart and check every single piece as you reassemble it. Look for tears, worn ball joint seats, rivits loose, maybe even your K-frame is torn where the front strut goes through it. Here is another thought: maybe the hole for the Lower contral arm shaft got elongated by the bears, allowing the thing to shift around during braking and cornering. If so, you can weld a washer around the hole to repair it.

Think you hit it, some noise when returning to the sraightaway, not to the bone jarring extent you experience in the turn. Appreciate the heads up on the front strut bushing, recall my front end guy mentioning something about this being no longer available. Didn't dawn on me to ask at the time what part he would use in its place. Think it's time to get more involved and roll up my sleeves on this one and forget the shop.

sounds like bad bushings to me. yes they are the same for all a-bodies from 63-76. your front end man is unfamiliar with a-body mopars. you mentioned having a rebuilt front end but said nothing of bushings. lca and strut rod bushings take about all the beating the front end has to take. probably why the uca mounts are so $#!+ and they survive quite well.

-james

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I have swapped the later disk brake front end into two older Dart Swingers, and I know what I am talking about. I have examined both earlier and later complonents thoroughly. If you compare the front struts from an early A body (72 and earlier), with the front strut from a 73 and later A body, you will see that the front shoulder on the later one is about 1/4" closer to the back shoulder. The front shoulder seats into the large washer that faces the rubber bushing in the K frame. The rear shoulder seats into the LCA. If you put the same later style, larger rubber bushings on both parts, the earlier strut WILL push the LCA back further than it was designed to go. You can take a later, larger bushing, and cut about 1/4" off of it with a band saw, and make it work, but my guess is, not many people know to do that. I have been unable to get the smaller, earlier bushings for several years now. Maybe someone makes them, but nobody I talked to had them or even knew there was a difference. If you are rebuilding an early A body front end, you need to know this.

I do agree with James though, it still sounds as if your front end man probably is coming up short on this one. If you don;t do front end work yourself, I would encourage you to give it a try. The tools are cheap, except for a press, and even that is fairly reasonable. Front end work is not that complicated. It is about as close to black smith work as you get to in a car. There is nothing you can;t do yourself except press in the bushings, if you don;t have a press, and a local machine shop can do that for you. Learn to do it yourself, and you will know it is done right, and will feel really proud of yourself in the end. I am beginning to think maybe your LCA bushings are worn out. Do you know if they were replaced?

I am curious about this strut rod bushing issue. I have just replaced both sets of strut rod bushings on my '64 and '68 Darts with the MOOG "improved" bushings and noticed no ill effects on handling. I don't immediately see how the bushing would apply enough force to push the strut rod backward that much.

I noticed no problems tightening the strut rods up and the LCAs look parallel and easily seated on their front pegs to me. I'll have to crawl
under the cars and check this out.

Weird,

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Closely read the post starting with "Allow me to explain"

Seems to me that the average human shouldn't be able to distort those LCA bushings that much just by twisting the LCA, (well, maybe with a cheater of some kind). Keep in mind that they are supposed to control forces applied by a #2800-#3000 car. Now, are you actually deforming the bushing, or is the bushing(s) moving around in the housing? If they are, I suggest that replacement of the LCA will solve most, (if not all), of the problem.

During a left turn, the right suspension is going to be pushed inward at the LCA, and pulled outward at the UCA, and the stresses are pretty heavy during those times. Also, during braking, I'd guess that both UCA and LCA will have rotational forces applied in a clockwise direction. (The braking action bleeding off the energy of the moving mass of the car.) This would effectively try to push the LCA rearward, and the UCA forward. Hmmmmm. Thinking along these lines might make one come to the conclusion that the LCA attachment point is ovaled in a horizontal plane, allowing the LCA excessive movement fore/aft at the lower ball joint, as well as in/out. I suggest these forces will radically accelerate ball joint wear.

As much as I hate to be the bearer of this kind of news, I advise you to pull the LCA and perform a very careful examination of it, along with the attaching hardware and hard points, just to make sure everything is in order.

While I'm sure the front end shop you use is a good one, (most are), I suspect that the guys doing the nuts & bolts work aren't terribly familiar with the Mopar A-body torsion bar system, and are overlooking what to us might be obvious, but with them, (being used to "modern" systems), isn't that big of a deal.

Please keep us advised of what you find.

Roger

good call, roger. very careful inspection of the k-frame mounting points for the lca as well. k-frame welds are ususally crappy at best.

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You guys make two good points. I have seen the LCA pivot tube break out in the Kmember. I have also seen the frt strut bushing anchor in the rad support punch out, also. Very scary handling both situations.

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'66 Cuda 225/4spd
'66 Dart GT convertible 225/auto
'64 Dart GT 340/4spd

Hmmm...I can't figure out how to quote here.

Anyway, great point, Bud L. I have seen - I have experienced - the LCA tube breaking in the K-member. In my beloved old Dart, I admit that I used to be REALLY rough with it - Baja'ing on dirt roads, etc, and I trashed several K-members.[/quote]

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Huggy Bear, Warren, MI
In loving memory of LH41C2R242418
1972-1987 R.I.P.