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Oil light in dash takes some time to go off....
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9907		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  72swing [ Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I hear ya,

I would love NOTHING more than to move out, but I own the trailer, and as of last year (We've owned it for almost 5 years) I can't move it without a series of inspections, and a bunch other crap. I can't afford to just drop it and move away... I owe some 20k on the 29k we paid originally for the house, and moving it to land within 100 miles would cost me nearly $6500! (counting seperating, packing, moving, setup, etc...) if I had that kind of cash, I wouldn't be considering trying an engine rebuild @ 2am with a lookout! :D

I really do appreciate everyone on this site... I've never been part of a more helpful, honest, and enthusiastic OLC. I am determined not to give up on my beloved dart. I really am NOT whining as much as trying to explain how evil this perdiciment is. When the guy brought over the engine and transmission for me, we had to post 3 people around the park with cell phones to make sure the patrol and managers were no where in sight!

You are right on the Money Dennis, we have approached the owners of the park 6 seperate times over 2 different companies about making a community repair area... Setting up time limits, arranging (even at our expense) to have used oil storage, etc... The responses ranged from "We'll look into it" (yea right), to "Tennants don't need to repair junk cars, buy a new car and accept the payments... " (WTF?). Lastly... "Go to Jiffy Lube or the dealership if you need to change your oil!"


Anyway, enough off topic about our crappy park...

1. I will get a better oil grade... 20-50 somebody said?

2. I can put in the oil stabilizer, hopefully will stick better when cold.

3. I'll drop using FRAMcrap, but in addition to wix, who else makes a good filter?
4. When possible I will find a way to rebuild the engine, and until then I'll be very good to her. :)

LASTLY: Could a plugged up oil pump pickup screen cause this?
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't bother with 20W50. If it were me, I'd run straight SAE30 or SAE40. I mentioned the filters I thought were higher quality in an earlier post in this thread. I don't think it's going to make much difference in your situation, however. Good luck. I'd see if I could find a way to stick it to that park as soon as I got the funds to haul ass... Screw em' :twisted:

D/W
Author:  72swing [ Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I mentioned the filters I thought were higher quality in an earlier post in this thread.
so you did, I glazed over it :oops:.


I appreciate the help. You're right about the park of course, but I'm probably stuck here until i finish my degree.
Author:  Jeb [ Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Like I said, just run some thick oil and drive it. I drove a worn out 318 polyspherical in that state for several years... just couldn't kill it.

Why waste a bunch of money on a band-aid like some kind of prelubricator? That's not going to help your idle situation anyway. Fix it or drive it.

I've lived in apartments and rebuilt engines right on the ground on a piece of plywood. If you've got a spare parking space, you can do it. You could even try a sleazy repair and drop the pan and just put in some new bearings with the motor still in the car. Main bearings can be replaced with the crank still installed by using a properly bent cotter pin...

D/W
Exactly how worn out was that 318? Did it smoke so bad that it made its own thunderhead. My dad used to have a car like that. The smoke lingered for hours even when he was gone. (no kiddin') :D
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Exactly how worn out was that 318? Did it smoke so bad that it made its own thunderhead. My dad used to have a car like that. The smoke lingered for hours even when he was gone. (no kiddin') :D
Didn't smoke too bad... Mostly just a slack bottom end. That mill is now slated for build with a 4" stroker crank and gonna get set up with TBI for my '88 truck...

I have had some mosquito chasers before - Most memorable was the 273 Belvedere II that I drove out of the junkyard. I didn't smoke too bad until you nailed it - then it would actually blow oil droplets out of the pipe when you did! :shock: That and an awesome smoke screen that lingered for a good, long while. I LOVED tailgaters! Enjoyed driving that car like that for 2 years before dropping in the dual-quad 440 (the only thing it smoked was first and second gear! ;))

D/W
Author:  Jeb [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah my Dad's first car was a 57 Chevy. It was in very good shape,except for the engine. It had a 265 4-barrel with a hole in one of the pistons. It broke down on him the first time he drove it. You could see him coming from a mile away, just look for the thunderhead. What was really funny was when he floored it to pass somebody :D :D . People would come by giving you the 1-finger salute, their shiny new cars covered with oil. He used to pull the choke all the way out at the red light to make it sound like it was cammed up.
Author:  72swing [ Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  smoke em if you got em!
That's really really cool!

I don't really care about it smoking, making nosie, etc... if it runs, and gets me A-->B then I'm happy...

PS: I may have found a way to set up a rebuild in my shed... :twisted: If I can work it out then I will rebuild and trick my 2nd engine while waiting for the current one to die!
Author:  Jeb [ Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hell, I would rebuild my motor in the bathtub if they are that bad with the rules. :twisted:
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Jeb is buddies with Jeff Foxworthy, ya'll.... ;)

"Honey, come move this transmission so I can take a bath!!!" :lol:

D/W
Author:  mpgFanatic [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  oil pressure delay = because of empty oil filter
Quote:
Find a stock pump with the standpipe (the check valve is within) and swap it onto your pump and I bet your problems go away or at least get better. Change the filter might be a good idea, too, although WIX has one of the best anti-drainback valves I've seen. That valve helps keep the oil in the filter from draining back through the pump and pickup back into the pan.
Based on the original reported symptoms, I do believe you have nailed the problem. :) The oil filter is completely draining, after shutdown. The way to verify is to wait for enough time for that draining to occur (I've seen it happen in an hour, but typically overnight is sufficient) and then take off the filter and look inside. A good filter will still have so much oil in it that it dribbles all over the place. A filter that has drained will, in fact, be DRY! You won't even need a drain pan under the car. The quickest fix is to throw away the filter and put on a fresh one (after filling the new one with oil as much as possible, of course.)

I have seen this problem at least sporadically and with a handful of different vehicles, although the slant sixes don't do it very often because of their nice standup pipe design feature. Typically, if the filter has a bad antidrainback valve, I'll notice the "delayed oil pressure upon startup" condition immediately (within the first start after an oil change), so I'll yank the filter off and replace it. For the past few years in my brand-F, I've noticed that the typical (non-defective) filter lasts between 4000 and 6000 miles before the symptoms happen, and at that point a new filter takes care of the issue. (I don't change the oil until it gets visibly dirty, and because the car sees a lot of highway miles with RedLine synthetic, that doesn't typically happen until 8-10k. Hey, nearly 1/4 million miles and it still runs like new-- must be doing something right.)

I've also noticed that if I screw on the filter really tight, it exacerbates the problem, which I'm assuming means the drainback valve is being deformed slightly. Loosening it to the point where it's just snug enough to keep from dripping is the key to making the PureOne filter work well. Sometimes I'll loosen it 1/8 turn and see if the symptoms get any better, and sometimes that works. Don't know about other filters.

There's a great page Russ put together at the http://www.minimopar.net site about filter quality, and I've tried lots of different examples... but I find it doesn't seem to matter what type of filter I use. I've even seen a filter get sucked dry through a drainback valve that looked perfectly OK. (Most do look OK upon visual inspection.)

Most recently, I've seen this problem with Toyota Camrys. Several of them. I could post a big long story if anyone is truly interested. The bottom line is I still don't know why, but with the input of several really sharp mechanics we have a theory that might be true: the weak PCV system in that engine allows oil to sludge quickly, and the varnish buildup blocks the oil pump relief valve ever so slightly open, such that there is an open passageway straight from the filter down to the pickup, which acts as a drain path. Capillary action is apparently strong enough to pull past a perfectly good filter valve. (Lots and lots and lots of evidence and trial and error has pointed toward this seemingly simple and somewhat baffling solution... as soon as I have permission to clean out the engine, I think I can confirm it, but the owner is nervous. So far, in the past 9-10k miles I've had a chance to notice that switching to Mobil1 and increasing oil change frequencies seems to be keeping things cleaner, AND the startup delay problem is getting noticeably better.)

Bottom line: a filter should NOT drain to empty after shutdown. Period. If it does, the corresponding dry start the next time (as the pump has to fill the filter before getting oil anywhere else) will wear out an engine in short order.

- Erik
Author:  Pierre [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh I agree its likely the antidrainback valve in the filter went south, but my curiosity is how, its a genuine wix filter. Your explanation mpgFanatic about it being on a bit tight sounds very plausible.

I have a standpipe assembly on order from dealer (for anyone that cares, part # 3577848 for a 71) that cost retail $35. I will swap on a new filter when adding this pipe to the pump, and get back to you.

Theres enough room to get the pipe on when the pump/engine is in the car, right?
Author:  Craig [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I have a standpipe assembly on order from dealer (for anyone that cares, part # 3577848 for a 71) that cost retail $35. I will swap on a new filter when adding this pipe to the pump, and get back to you.
Holy Smokes! The last one I bought (not that many years ago) was something like $7.50.
Author:  Pierre [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Surprised me too. I should of priced an entire pump! But I bit the bullet and said at least it was still availible. Or maybe my dealer is just expensive? $35 is msrp so maybe your dealer gave you a good discount, or MSRP varies from state to state.
Author:  guest [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  low oil pressure
Would Restore additive help the worn bearings and increase the oil pressure. this would be easy to do.
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: oil pressure delay = because of empty oil filter
Quote:
I've also noticed that if I screw on the filter really tight, it exacerbates the problem, which I'm assuming means the drainback valve is being deformed slightly.
Very interesting observation. Noted.

D/W
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