Slant Six Forum :: Aftermarket Aluminum Cylinder Head?

We're allllllmost there, folks! From this point in the discussion we can see all the way to "If I turn the lid of my air cleaner upside-down, will that increase performance?".

Quote:

every 6 months almost like clockwork we get some hammerswinger show up and declare we need alloy heads and they know someone who will do it as long as somebody else is paying for it, and declare us losers because we don't welcome them with open arms.

Oh, but haven't you heard? All opinions are equally valid and you're just being jaded and negative.

I *almost* feel like dipping into my 401k to get this done and quiet the masses.

Anybody up for a challenge? You could even include Somender grooves! :LOL:

Most any foundry will cast anything for you, provided you provide them with usable patterns and cores. The problem is most people at the hobbyist level aren't competent enough to make water jacket cores and intake/exhaust port cores, thus making it hard for the foundry to produce usable castings and ultimately being blamed for the mistakes of the patternmaker. Patterns of this complexity today require the use of 3D modeling software and CNC rapid prototyping techniques to provide consistent quality and precision in the patterns and cores to produce detail and hold precision to a level that can't be maintained with a saw and file. All in all it takes about $60K in labor, sweat and skill to produce a set of patterns and cores for a head like this.

I will have 200 made at $3000 each,$2000 deposite reqired.Lets see how many respond.Wilfred

Let's revisit this topic in [n] years when 3D printers have evolved more.

For now, let's talk about likely values of [n].

Author:	Luftwaffles1000 [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:55 am ]
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Quote: We're allllllmost there, folks! From this point in the discussion we can see all the way to "If I turn the lid of my air cleaner upside-down, will that increase performance?". So you're saying... IF I TURN MY AIR CLEANER LID UPSIDE DOWN I'LL GET 50 HORSEPOWER?????

Author:	wvenable [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:22 am ]
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Only if inside the air cleaner there lurks an K & N filter!

Author:	slantzilla [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:53 am ]
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Quote: Quote: every 6 months almost like clockwork we get some hammerswinger show up and declare we need alloy heads and they know someone who will do it as long as somebody else is paying for it, and declare us losers because we don't welcome them with open arms. Oh, but haven't you heard? All opinions are equally valid and you're just being jaded and negative. That's me.

Author:	Pierre [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:17 pm ]
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I almost feel like dipping into my 401k to get this done and quiet the masses.

Author:	Greg Ondayko [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:07 pm ]
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Quote: I almost feel like dipping into my 401k to get this done and quiet the masses. Cool. Get a big scooper ready for that dip! Greg

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Aftermarket Aluminum Cylinder Head? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45109	Page 11 of 16

Author:	Tim Keith [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:07 pm ]
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I think it would be difficult to find a foundry that would take on a complex automotive casting. If a foundry did accept bids I think the cost would be greater for an unfinished casting with cores than all but a few buyers would be willing to pay for a finished cylinder head. I think only a company that has the experience with building heads for the retail market and an in house foundry could manage this. Pretty slim odds at that. Its smarter to modify the OEM cast iron head - I prefer iron anyway. You might do a one off prototype using old school methods, but I think it would be difficult to find a foundry that would reproduce head casting with water cores. Earl Edgerton produced a couple overhead valve six cylinder heads, the costs were something like $6,500 each and he made the patterns and machined the heads himself.

Author:	Reed [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:21 pm ]
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I wonder what the market would be for an insert that could be welded into the combustion chamber to increase compression and change the chamber shape in a stock cast iron head. If the main advantages to a new casting would be (a) combustion chamber shape and (b) valve size, an insert seems plausible. Stock heads can be machined for oversize valves and an insert could be added to the spark plug side of the chamber. Anybody up for a challenge? You could even include Somender grooves!

Author:	CNC-Dude [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:26 pm ]
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Most any foundry will cast anything for you, provided you provide them with usable patterns and cores. The problem is most people at the hobbyist level aren't competent enough to make water jacket cores and intake/exhaust port cores, thus making it hard for the foundry to produce usable castings and ultimately being blamed for the mistakes of the patternmaker. Patterns of this complexity today require the use of 3D modeling software and CNC rapid prototyping techniques to provide consistent quality and precision in the patterns and cores to produce detail and hold precision to a level that can't be maintained with a saw and file. All in all it takes about $60K in labor, sweat and skill to produce a set of patterns and cores for a head like this.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:10 pm ]
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Let's revisit this topic in *[n]* years when 3D printers have evolved more. For now, let's talk about likely values of *[n]. Quote:* Anybody up for a challenge? You could even include Somender grooves! :LOL: Oh, no, you didn't!

Author:	emsvitil [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:13 pm ]
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Quote: Somender grooves! OH NO.... Singh grooves And I up that with..... What oil should I use with the aluminum head?

Author:	Reed [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:19 pm ]
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The REAL question is what breather to use and will it make monkey pudding?

Author:	madmax/6 [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:27 pm ]
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I will have 200 made at $3000 each,$2000 deposite reqired.Lets see how many respond.Wilfred

Author:	Tim Keith [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:30 pm ]
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Quote: Most any foundry will cast anything for you, provided you provide them with usable patterns and cores. The problem is most people at the hobbyist level aren't competent enough to make water jacket cores and intake/exhaust port cores, thus making it hard for the foundry to produce usable castings and ultimately being blamed for the mistakes of the patternmaker. Patterns of this complexity today require the use of 3D modeling software and CNC rapid prototyping techniques to provide consistent quality and precision in the patterns and cores to produce detail and hold precision to a level that can't be maintained with a saw and file. All in all it takes about $60K in labor, sweat and skill to produce a set of patterns and cores for a head like this. That's probably correct. The Model A redesign link said that they only got bids from a single foundry in southern California - I think that was the location. None of the other regional foundries wanted to take on the project. At any rate the the total costs escalated to more more than $4,000. I think there is a new "banger" Ford block that costs $10,000, but its basically a modern block that has the external look of the original. Some of the tweaked antique banger motors make more than 200 horsepower. The banger Ford block that Tod Buttermore is doing will cost less than $3,000 each, but he's already produced more complicated block castings. Do a Google for "Tod Buttermore". I think you'd want somebody of that skill level. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teocBB7sp34

Author:	slantzilla [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:12 pm ]
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Quote: I will have 200 made at $3000 each,$2000 deposite reqired.Lets see how many respond.Wilfred How many deposits you need to get things going? If this is a serious offer I could be a player.

Author:	Matt Cramer [ Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:28 am ]
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Quote: Let's revisit this topic in *[n]* years when 3D printers have evolved more. For now, let's talk about likely values of *[n]*. I would put reasonably priced 3D printing that's good enough to make a cylinder head directly at 15 years or more. 3D printing that's capable of manufacturing decent casting patterns? That's available now. In fact, I've been working today with a couple companies that you can just email a CAD file and they can 3D print a wax copy of your part, then investment cast it. Before anyone gets their hopes up too much - I didn't email them a 3D drawing of a slant six cylinder head! Just an enclosure / heat sink design for something at work. But it will be interesting to see what this process costs.

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