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Al vs Fe
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57103		 Page 11 of 13
Author:  jcc [ Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
So I am at the PRI (Professional Racing Industry) convention in Indianapolis, so I bump into Ken the owner of the re known Indy Cyl Head, a heavy hitter in the Mopar aftermarket performance engine field. I ask him how in the world is an AMC alum offering financially feasible in both blocks and heads ( which INDY offers), but for example, a slant alum head is not?

He said "it's not, but the AMC crowd self funded all the R&D, test builds," etc on the project otherwise it would have never happened. He also mentioned, "they are very loyal" .

I also asked, so what number are we looking at today for an alum slant head, he said $250K. I think that is a bit high, but he is a businessman, and likely doesn't want additional competition ,and would prefer to make a generous profit right out of the starting gate on a project such as this, and he might have felt stung on the AMC deal and doesn't want a repeat, but I am strictly guessing on the last part..
Author:  slantzilla [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
FYI, Ken is not the owner anymore. He will still be a salesman, but the Wheatcrafts bought ICH.

Right now ICH can't even supply Mopar blocks.
Author:  Dart270 [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
That's a good data point, even if he overestimated by 2X... I bet the AMC guys aren't nearly as cheap as us Slant guys too, and the fact they ran theirs in a JEEP helps a bunch.

Lou
Author:  GregCon [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
Interesting, glad you talked to him.

Indy, as noted, changed hands...and that can only be a good thing. The previous owners were miserable to deal with to the point I would agressively look for any other option before I looked to them.

As also mentioned, I'm sure the JEEP connection helped the AMC crowd. You can be sure 1% at most were Matador owners. And, as noted, the Slant Six crowd is a bunch of cheapskates so I'm not surprised no one is clamoring to offer up products.
Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
:D :D :D

I have met slanters on both sides of the ¢- $ spectrum!

some have trouble spending $, some have too much $ to spend.

Some have no $ to spend, Some have $ but choose not to spend it on the slanted Hobby.


Greg
Author:  GregCon [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
Being a cheapskate has nothing to do with how much money you have!

But really....look at the JEEP hobby. It's full of guys -and even women and transgendered people of mixed race, ethnicity, and sexual preference - who cough up all sorts of money on useless doo-dads for their JEEP. Wheels, tires, pushbars, lights, seats, fender flares, grilles, the list is endless. Then look at the Slant Six hobby ... guys who won't spring for a $600 set of custom pistons or $350 for a used set of Centerlines. There are exceptions but as a whole, it's a low dollar hobby.
Author:  slantzilla [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
The early 2000's was the heyday of big money being spent, and when those guys gave it up for the most part it died. We had rod and crank projects going on and guys were outspending each other for the 10's and then the 9's.

Honestly? Right now there is no market for an aluminum head because there is no real advantage to having one.

I was also at Clay City in the early 2000's when a group approached Russ and Ken at the ICH display wanting to get a CNC billet head done. They already had the program written. The answer they received was "Go f@@k yourselves".
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
Quote:
And, as noted, the Slant Six crowd is a bunch of cheapskates
Well, "cheapskate" is a strong word; maybe I wouldn't go quite that far…

…or maybe I would. :?
Author:  GregCon [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
lol. "I was also at Clay City in the early 2000's when a group approached Russ and Ken at the ICH display wanting to get a CNC billet head done. They already had the program written. The answer they received was "Go f@@k yourselves"."

I can't imagine the guys at ICH taking that kinda attitude. Well, actually, I can!

Aluminum head? Well, there would be a big weight savings and the sky would be the limit on port design, and you'd get bigger valves. I don't even feel the need for more HP out of my Slant but I'd buy one. The beauty of a good aluminum head, unlike nitrous or some other dubious part, is that the benefits are always there once you pay the initial price.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
Quote:
big weight savings and the sky would be the limit on port design, and you'd get bigger valves
I figure a Fiberglass hood will lose as much weight as a head. Plus there are plenty of big valve options for us to use. Really I only see it as a nice thing for about 2 or 3 people who can really tell what taking 30# off the front of a Valiant or Dart really feels like for road racing or handling. I ain't that smart!! :D :D

I already met my goals of @ 12.99 @ 100+ with a iron head in a 2920#(with driver) car. It would cheaper and easier to lose 50# from my gut. And the way I see it, it has about the same likelihood of it happening!! :D :D
Author:  slantzilla [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
Valve size is already limited by bore size. You can put a lot bigger valves in an iron head than we do, but they are badly shrouded.

The only advantage to an alloy head is ease of repair when you screw it up.

I can lose a lot more weight than an alloy head just by putting a normal sized human in the seat. :mrgreen:
Author:  drgonzo [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
It seems to me that the water jackets could be reconfigured to allow an improved port shape plus coming standard with big valves, shorter guides, big springs, yada yada yada. I have no doubt a better head could be cast.in aluminum. Could be.
Author:  GregCon [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
Aluminum has more sexy.
Author:  slantzilla [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
Take the bull by the horns and do it then. You'll make millions !
Author:  emsvitil [ Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Al vs Fe
We're Frugal...……


:mrgreen:
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