Slant Six Forum :: windage tray

From reading the info on this thread, it would be worthwile to install my spare /6 windage tray in the motor that's going into my 65 Valiant convert. In looking at the tray it appears that it is attached in a similar fashion as a small block, i.e. special main bearing bolts with threaded holes in the head. Are these bolts readily available for the slant or will they be a problem to find? Can SB bolts be used instead?

Bezarc, haven't heard of that one before.

Quote:

...
The hole pattern is simply the result of a circle that is sectioned by the fold line. The angle of the fold line can be used to generate the projection of the part of the circle that is on the slanted surface onto the plane containing the main head bolt holes. You can use trig to determine the hypotenuse of the resultant right triangle and use the ratio from that segment to the bordering dimensions of the original circle segment to determine the correct percentage to elongate same perpendicular to the fold line.

Honestly, windage trays and crank scrapers are worth the time and cost to install, even for "street / strip" or economy / efficiency engine build-ups.
DD

Quote:

Honestly, windage trays and crank scrapers are worth the time and cost to install, even for "street / strip" or economy / efficiency engine build-ups.
DD

I guess this is one case where we will always agree to disagree Doug.

With the current price of over $100 for a tray, around $70 for the hardware, $49 for the scraper, I wouldn't do it on a mild street motor. On a race motor I would definately do it.

Quote:

With the current price of over $100 for a tray, around $70 for the hardware, $49 for the scraper, I wouldn't do it on a mild street motor. On a race motor I would definately do it.

Yep, to me it is just one more thing to come loose on a street motor and get into the crank. In all honesty, I have never even seen much if any gain on track on my good motor. I will still keep a tray and scraper in there though.

anyway, maybe I just can't find it on your site, but do you have a picture of the slant windage tray? I found the scraper, just not the tray. maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough.....

Kevin, I am not knocking or disputing, anything you say. We are in agreement, except in one area. "Bang for the buck". There are people who will spend $500 for 5 HP, and $500 for one MPG. But most slant sixers (not all) are financially challenged. I have one of your scrappers, and will be getting another one in the future, But these are for my race engines. It is up to the individual, whether the gains justify the cost. Some will say "yes", and some will say "no". I say "it depends", on what you are looking for, and what you are willing to spend to achive that goal.

Kick up the pressure and cut at an angle? Changes a circle to an ellipse with more widely spaced foci but smaller effective circumference for the machine head to traverse.

Or stack two sheets.

Quote:

Kick up the pressure and cut at an angle? Changes a circle to an ellipse with more widely spaced foci but smaller effective circumference for the machine head to traverse.

Or stack two sheets.

close, but no.

the f-22 has diamond shaped holes, at a 45 degree angle (there were very specific reasons for this). this helps, but not enough. the short of it is you don't turn the abrasive off, and instead of cutting a circular pattern around the perimeter, you cut a zig-zag. I would have to sketch it out for you to really see what I mean.

at one time this was a company secret, but when they laid me off they voided my non-compete/non-disclosure clause in my employment.

Author:	Kevin Johnson [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:24 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: From reading the info on this thread, it would be worthwile to install my spare /6 windage tray in the motor that's going into my 65 Valiant convert. In looking at the tray it appears that it is attached in a similar fashion as a small block, i.e. special main bearing bolts with threaded holes in the head. Are these bolts readily available for the slant or will they be a problem to find? Can SB bolts be used instead? Not sure.

Author:	sick6 [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Bezarc, haven't heard of that one before. mastercam is pretty nice, but I am just doing 3 axis stuff, haven't tried surfcam yet. very user friendly so far. the hole pattern in the above picture is interesting, can you decribe it? do you do something similar for a slant? while I was programming/running the waterjets, I used to make vents and sheilds for lockheed, specifically the F-22 fighter so I have seen my fair share of hole designs. I ask because I am curious of the shape, and how you came up with it.

Author:	Kevin Johnson [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:16 pm ]
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Quote: Bezarc, haven't heard of that one before. Bezarc is worth checking out.

Author:	65 dartman [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:18 pm ]
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I won't be building a tray but using the loose one I have on hand. I guess I'll bite the bullet and order the kit from Summit

Author:	Doctor Dodge [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: ... The hole pattern is simply the result of a circle that is sectioned by the fold line. The angle of the fold line can be used to generate the projection of the part of the circle that is on the slanted surface onto the plane containing the main head bolt holes. You can use trig to determine the hypotenuse of the resultant right triangle and use the ratio from that segment to the bordering dimensions of the original circle segment to determine the correct percentage to elongate same perpendicular to the fold line. Wow,... sounds like something I would say. Honestly, windage trays and crank scrapers are worth the time and cost to install, even for "street / strip" or economy / efficiency engine build-ups. DD

Slant Six Forum https://slantsix.org/forum/

windage tray https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15912	Page 3 of 5

Author:	sick6 [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:42 pm ]
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when I was working on the f-22 panels, we discovered a new way to cut the particular shape that cut over a second and a half off of each holes' cutting time. That might now sound like much by itself, but when you multiply it by the 65,000 holes that were in each panel, we saved the company a boat load of cash. of course, that was waterjet though, and with an oddly shaped hole....... anyway, maybe I just can't find it on your site, but do you have a picture of the slant windage tray? I found the scraper, just not the tray. maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough..... do you use the same hole pattern for each tray? by the way, make sure you do not accidentally add an extra "P" in the web address to kevin's site. the pop ups will drive you nuts.

Author:	slantzilla [ Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:05 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Honestly, windage trays and crank scrapers are worth the time and cost to install, even for "street / strip" or economy / efficiency engine build-ups. DD I guess this is one case where we will always agree to disagree Doug. See ya in Vegas.

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:34 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: Honestly, windage trays and crank scrapers are worth the time and cost to install, even for "street / strip" or economy / efficiency engine build-ups. DD I guess this is one case where we will always agree to disagree Doug. Here are my thoughts: A windage tray/scraper will help any engine. How much depends on the engine, and RPM range. Back "in the old days" the Mopar windage tray kit came with the hard ware, and cost about $40.00. At that price I would install it in any slant I built, along with installing baffles in the pan, and possibly dropping the sump. With the current price of over $100 for a tray, around $70 for the hardware, $49 for the scraper, I wouldn't do it on a mild street motor. On a race motor I would definately do it.

Author:	slantzilla [ Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:46 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: With the current price of over $100 for a tray, around $70 for the hardware, $49 for the scraper, I wouldn't do it on a mild street motor. On a race motor I would definately do it. Yep, to me it is just one more thing to come loose on a street motor and get into the crank. In all honesty, I have never even seen much if any gain on track on my good motor. I will still keep a tray and scraper in there though.

Author:	Kevin Johnson [ Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:07 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: With the current price of over $100 for a tray, around $70 for the hardware, $49 for the scraper, I wouldn't do it on a mild street motor. On a race motor I would definately do it. Yep, to me it is just one more thing to come loose on a street motor and get into the crank. In all honesty, I have never even seen much if any gain on track on my good motor. I will still keep a tray and scraper in there though. If you are running a stock pan on a drag strip the windage problem will be huge.

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:34 am ]
Post subject:
Kevin, I am not knocking or disputing, anything you say. We are in agreement, except in one area. "Bang for the buck". There are people who will spend $500 for 5 HP, and $500 for one MPG. But most slant sixers (not all) are financially challenged. I have one of your scrappers, and will be getting another one in the future, But these are for my race engines. It is up to the individual, whether the gains justify the cost. Some will say "yes", and some will say "no". I say "it depends", on what you are looking for, and what you are willing to spend to achive that goal.

Author:	sick6 [ Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Kick up the pressure and cut at an angle? Changes a circle to an ellipse with more widely spaced foci but smaller effective circumference for the machine head to traverse. Or stack two sheets. close, but no. the f-22 has diamond shaped holes, at a 45 degree angle (there were very specific reasons for this). this helps, but not enough. the short of it is you don't turn the abrasive off, and instead of cutting a circular pattern around the perimeter, you cut a zig-zag. I would have to sketch it out for you to really see what I mean. at one time this was a company secret, but when they laid me off they voided my non-compete/non-disclosure clause in my employment. but I still would like to see a picture of the slant 6 tray. what is the going price now for your tray?

Author:	Kevin Johnson [ Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:02 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: Kick up the pressure and cut at an angle? Changes a circle to an ellipse with more widely spaced foci but smaller effective circumference for the machine head to traverse. Or stack two sheets. close, but no. the f-22 has diamond shaped holes, at a 45 degree angle (there were very specific reasons for this). this helps, but not enough. the short of it is you don't turn the abrasive off, and instead of cutting a circular pattern around the perimeter, you cut a zig-zag. I would have to sketch it out for you to really see what I mean. at one time this was a company secret, but when they laid me off they voided my non-compete/non-disclosure clause in my employment. Sorry to hear about the layoff.

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