Slant Six Forum :: Daily driver on the dyno

I think turbo is better on a street driver. Nitrous is either off or full on. Turbo can be modulated for what ever amount of extra power is needed, just by how hard you press on the accelerator. Plus, with nitrous, normally the tank will not be turned on, untill you need it. If you want to play with the guy sitting next to you, what are you going to do, Say "wait a minute, while I turn my nitrous on"? Whith a turbo just nail it.

I use a Jacobs Mastermind controller to pulse the NO2 solenoids to control traction and power output. This is an alternative to 2-stage and gives you much more variation in control.

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Quote:

I use a Jacobs Mastermind controller to pulse the NO2 solenoids to control traction and power output. This is an alternative to 2-stage and gives you much more variation in control.

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Some time back, I tried to get some info on that unit, and had no luck. Is it still available? An electrical engineer, I know, took my solenoids and tried to make a pulse modulated system, and could not do it. The solenoids would not operate properly, The plungers would move too slowly.

Not to be a complete downer, but do you really need NOS or a Turbo to meet your 200hp/240hp, goal? I would almost say not really. I think it's a great idea to run the efi now without the turbo/nos. However, I just talked to the old man over breakfeast while reading this and asked him, "What do you think the duster is running for horses?" He said about 190 maybe 200 because we have never read the injectors at 5000rpm.
So thinking about it I never touched the shortblock. So bumping up the compression would be a big eye opener. I run a 270 duration with .44 lift, which with the efi can be brought way more up, in fact I would run closer to .5X lift. I did a fairly good job polishing and porting, but in hindsight would most likely have just done the bowls and let the guys clean up the runners (make sure to keep the cross sections smaller for torque). Balance the rods to exact weights, clean everything up you can, and perhaps a hyperpak efi if your feeling real gitty. Now correct me if I'm wrong but I would personally rather do everything I could N/A than shove the NO2 on, cause;
A) never really likes the idea of NOS
B) You did everything you could possible do to meet your goals (which are realistic) now it's time to put on a 100 shot on.

Author:	Dart74 [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:29 pm ]
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Here are some pics as promised The first picture shows the new aluminum intake with the gasket "shadow" marked with black ink, it shows how much material can be removed. This next picture is the manifold when done porting. The last picture show hos much material that was removed from the intake ports! [/img]

Author:	Dart74 [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:43 am ]
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Hi all, I haven't had the time to do much work on the car this week (too much at work ) but I'll be working on it this weekend. My new Innovative LS-1 has arrived, the MS ecu should be here any day and also the Tungsten PDA I bought for easy tuning while driving. I'm a bit in doubt if I'm going turbo or nitrous, think I'll decide when I've tested the new head and efi-conversion. I'll give you an update later on, Nitrous... mmmm..

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:03 am ]
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I think turbo is better on a street driver. Nitrous is either off or full on. Turbo can be modulated for what ever amount of extra power is needed, just by how hard you press on the accelerator. Plus, with nitrous, normally the tank will not be turned on, untill you need it. If you want to play with the guy sitting next to you, what are you going to do, Say "wait a minute, while I turn my nitrous on"? Whith a turbo just nail it.

Author:	Dart74 [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:05 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I think turbo is better on a street driver. Nitrous is either off or full on. Turbo can be modulated for what ever amount of extra power is needed, just by how hard you press on the accelerator. Plus, with nitrous, normally the tank will not be turned on, untill you need it. If you want to play with the guy sitting next to you, what are you going to do, Say "wait a minute, while I turn my nitrous on"? Whith a turbo just nail it. I see what you mean, but you can turn the argument around. The turbo will always be there, tho in this daily driver I'm most of the time not going to need the extra power. But it'd be really cool to do a 2-stage wet-system, going as much nos as the traction will allow from start, then going another stage when it gets some speed I would'nt need more then ~75hp nos since the goal is 200rwhp daily driver. Anyway, I gave the new head to a friend of mine yesterday for a 0.80" mill, valve-guides, 3-angle valvejobb and sand(glass)blasting.

Author:	tophat [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:07 am ]
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One other nontechnical down side to nitrous (where I line in NC anyway) is that if you get pulled over FOR ANY REASON and they search your car and find the valve on your bottle open, you are automatically guilty of street racing. Yes, if they pull you for a tag light out, find a reason to search you, find the bottle open, you are now in BIG trouble. I don't know how the law works if you have an electric bottle valve. Just something else for you to think about. TopHat

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Author:	Dart74 [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:17 am ]
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Hi tophat, There is no such law in Sweden/Norway. They could pull you over and give you a ticket for transporting a pressurized tube/flamable gas but that is big deal. Streetracing.. what is that?

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:24 am ]
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I don't know the current law, but when I lived in NJ, some years back, you had to have a permit from the state, to handle/posses nitrous. If you got caught with it,, without the permit, and the cop was being a a**hole, you could be charged with possion of a "controled dangerous substance". I still have a current NJ permit. The permit is still required, but the penalties may be different.

Author:	sandy in BC [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:20 am ]
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If you get pulled over here there is no search allowed without stating "Probale Cause".....there are only two...drugs and guns.... Anything else found during that search is not prosecutable. You should hear what happens when the young Mountie wants to "Have a look" in the Valaint......"so whats yer probable cause?" Most Canucks dont know or understand the law and submit to illegal searches....teenagers get abused this way all the time. ...its a different story at the border with Homeland Security....but they care less about NO2....

Author:	Pat Dawson [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:09 am ]
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I put the NOS sticker on my bumper to let authorities know it's there in case of an accident (it's not in my Valiant). I've never been hassled in Maryland. I use a Jacobs Mastermind controller to pulse the NO2 solenoids to control traction and power output. This is an alternative to 2-stage and gives you much more variation in control. I concur with the Turbo as being king-of-the-street. It's tough to get past the first cost and fancy plumbing though if you want to go fast once in a while on the cheap and easy. I want my own Dyno. Waaaaa.

Author:	Charrlie_S [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:40 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I use a Jacobs Mastermind controller to pulse the NO2 solenoids to control traction and power output. This is an alternative to 2-stage and gives you much more variation in control. . Some time back, I tried to get some info on that unit, and had no luck. Is it still available? An electrical engineer, I know, took my solenoids and tried to make a pulse modulated system, and could not do it. The solenoids would not operate properly, The plungers would move too slowly.

Author:	runvs_826 [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:57 am ]
Post subject:
Not to be a complete downer, but do you really need NOS or a Turbo to meet your 200hp/240hp, goal? I would almost say not really. I think it's a great idea to run the efi now without the turbo/nos. However, I just talked to the old man over breakfeast while reading this and asked him, "What do you think the duster is running for horses?" He said about 190 maybe 200 because we have never read the injectors at 5000rpm. So thinking about it I never touched the shortblock. So bumping up the compression would be a big eye opener. I run a 270 duration with .44 lift, which with the efi can be brought way more up, in fact I would run closer to .5X lift. I did a fairly good job polishing and porting, but in hindsight would most likely have just done the bowls and let the guys clean up the runners (make sure to keep the cross sections smaller for torque). Balance the rods to exact weights, clean everything up you can, and perhaps a hyperpak efi if your feeling real gitty. Now correct me if I'm wrong but I would personally rather do everything I could N/A than shove the NO2 on, cause; A) never really likes the idea of NOS B) You did everything you could possible do to meet your goals (which are realistic) now it's time to put on a 100 shot on.

Author:	Joshie225 [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:32 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: I use a Jacobs Mastermind controller to pulse the NO2 solenoids to control traction and power output. This is an alternative to 2-stage and gives you much more variation in control. . Some time back, I tried to get some info on that unit, and had no luck. Is it still available? An electrical engineer, I know, took my solenoids and tried to make a pulse modulated system, and could not do it. The solenoids would not operate properly, The plungers would move too slowly. Charlie, Yes, the Jacobs Nitrous Mastermind is still available. When working with a PWM system and solenoids the operating frequency is key. Too high a frequency and you don't get the solenoid open at low duty cycle and once the duty cycle is high enough it may not close during the off periods. Also, with a system like this I think it's important to have the nitrous jets at the solenoid rather than at the plate or nozzle. The reason being flex lines aren't perfectly rigid and will swell a little and act as a reservoir when the solenoid is open. So even though you may be pulsing the solenoid with a 60% on-time you may be delivering close to 100% of what the jets allow. The numbers are just an example, but the non linear nature of the N2O delivery is documented. I'm after a Holley 2300 style nitrous plate and a Nitrous Mastermind for my Valiant.

Author:	Dart270 [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:34 am ]
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200 RWHP is not hard to do without N2O and with a stock type bottom end. Many people have done this reliably. 200 crank HP is of course easier. A good head, mild/medium cam, 9:1, and decent induction/exhaust will get you there. Lou

Author:	Dart74 [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Not to be a complete downer, but do you really need NOS or a Turbo to meet your 200hp/240hp, goal? I would almost say not really. I think it's a great idea to run the efi now without the turbo/nos. However, I just talked to the old man over breakfeast while reading this and asked him, "What do you think the duster is running for horses?" He said about 190 maybe 200 because we have never read the injectors at 5000rpm. So thinking about it I never touched the shortblock. So bumping up the compression would be a big eye opener. I run a 270 duration with .44 lift, which with the efi can be brought way more up, in fact I would run closer to .5X lift. I did a fairly good job polishing and porting, but in hindsight would most likely have just done the bowls and let the guys clean up the runners (make sure to keep the cross sections smaller for torque). Balance the rods to exact weights, clean everything up you can, and perhaps a hyperpak efi if your feeling real gitty. Now correct me if I'm wrong but I would personally rather do everything I could N/A than shove the NO2 on, cause; A) never really likes the idea of NOS B) You did everything you could possible do to meet your goals (which are realistic) now it's time to put on a 100 shot on. A) I like NOS B) My goal is to keep this a daily driver but put out 200rwhp when wanted. What do you mean by increasing lift with the EFI? What else is done to your engine? CR? PS. How would reading the injectors calculate real world horsepower?

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Author:	runvs_826 [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:41 pm ]
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Why can't a daily driver be 240hp? I'm confused, so is the goal 240hp after nitrous? Anyways I learned after I switched over to EFI I could put A LOT more cam into my engine and still have a soft idle. The engine is pretty darn mild. I didn't touch the shortblock except for the cam. The head was shaved .1, 3 angle, polishing the bowls, and bigger valves. So after all that it seems like I can be hugging up to 200hp and gobs of torque. The EFI guestimate was simply knowing how much fuel is being sucked through the TBI, and refering it to the 350 I stole it off and knowing how much horsepower those kicked out. Also going off what other people have done and their known dyno numbers.