Slant Six Forum :: Bent Intake Valves w/ Wiseco ProTru Pistons :-(

I know these are very old posts but was wondering if Wiseco ever changed the valve notches on the new pistons? We will have 2 motors going together shortly and was just wondering.

Rick

somebody made a tool out of a old valve to notch the pistons.

Yes I know I can Dremel them. I cut all my Chevy ones by hand and they worked fine. I just don't understand the whole philosophy of things not being right. With a small machining change these could work right out of the box.

Yeah I am happy to have a quality piston to buy. Yeah I wish I did not have to "fix them"

I know, I know! Yes, just shut up and get in the truck!

Sorry Rick, but there is nothing for these piston manufacturers to fix.

Just hope everyone is ready to cut me the same slack that we all give to multi million companies when I do my Hyperpak manifolds.

they just found a forging that was close enough to work.

Author:	Greg Ondayko [ Thu May 21, 2015 6:25 pm ]
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Quote: I know these are very old posts but was wondering if Wiseco ever changed the valve notches on the new pistons? We will have 2 motors going together shortly and was just wondering. Rick I think Not. I just bought One New Piston To Replace the Mashed up one on the ruster engine when it Lost a rod bearing. to be safe and to match my measurements for the other 5 pistions with exceedingly large valves - say over 1.70/ 1.44 Sizes I took about an 1/8" off the Valve notch to be sure the valves clear. Greg

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Fri May 22, 2015 4:21 am ]
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Has anyone ever talked to them to see if they could correct this. I hate grinding on new pistons and certainly want to do them all out of the engine if I have a choice. My head will be similar to Greg's / Marks so I am guessing I will have the same issues. Rick

Author:	madmax/6 [ Fri May 22, 2015 2:13 pm ]
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They were made aware of it and havent changed a thing.

Author:	Greg Ondayko [ Fri May 22, 2015 6:24 pm ]
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break out the dremel tool... it's not that bad...especially if you know about it ahead of time and don't smash any valves. Greg

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Fri May 22, 2015 8:07 pm ]
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Yes I know I can Dremel them. I cut all my Chevy ones by hand and they worked fine. I just don't understand the whole philosophy of things not being right. With a small machining change these could work right out of the box. Yeah I am happy to have a quality piston to buy. Yeah I wish I did not have to "fix them" I know, I know! Yes, just shut up and get in the truck!

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Bent Intake Valves w/ Wiseco ProTru Pistons :-( https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39249	Page 3 of 4

Author:	emsvitil [ Fri May 22, 2015 8:42 pm ]
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I can't find the link, but somebody made a tool out of a old valve to notch the pistons. Basically, you notch them with the valvetool in the head.........

Author:	Old6rodder [ Fri May 22, 2015 9:04 pm ]
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And this is hardly the only hobby with such manufacturer attitudes. Be glad you're not in the Sn3 corner of model railroading. A $2500.00 brass loco comes ready to run ...... on straight track only. Should you want to actually pull something or negotiate a curve you then have to out-shop it (or pay to have it done, if you haven't learned those skills). Where's a "fuming" smiley when you want one?

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Sat May 23, 2015 3:42 am ]
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Quote: somebody made a tool out of a old valve to notch the pistons. Yes that was me. In my Valiant build.

Author:	CNC-Dude [ Sat May 23, 2015 9:42 am ]
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Quote: Yes I know I can Dremel them. I cut all my Chevy ones by hand and they worked fine. I just don't understand the whole philosophy of things not being right. With a small machining change these could work right out of the box. Yeah I am happy to have a quality piston to buy. Yeah I wish I did not have to "fix them" I know, I know! Yes, just shut up and get in the truck! Sorry Rick, but there is nothing for these piston manufacturers to fix. They are making and placing their piston reliefs based on what data they are given from Chevy, Ford and Chrysler for valve location. What you are seeing is how crappy these production tolerances and parts are made from the companies that Chevy, Ford and Chrysler use to machine their raw castings into finished cylinder heads. These high quality piston companies can't accomodate or correct for inaccuracies for less than perfect workmanship done by these outside sources used over 30 years ago. In a stock engines, this sloppy workmanship is often un-noticed because their is nothing to let contact take place. But when you upgrade and start souping these engine up, you take away all those safe guards and now you are allowing them to show them self. In the end, it is the engine builder that is responsible for checking valve relief locations and piston to valve clearances, Wiseco is only providing you with a part made to much more precision that what your head was made to, and now those sloppy OEM production tolerances are only then made visible. Its Chrysler's fault, not Wiseco's.

Author:	slantzilla [ Sat May 23, 2015 10:06 am ]
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I helped build a 632 Donovan/Big Chief motor. Everything in it was the best money could buy. I don't think that there was one part that did not have to be massaged in some way. How pissed would you be if your $3500 sheet metal intake leaked water into your new motor on the first dyno pull? Small market like Slants are we are lucky to get any interest. Still doesn't make you feel any better when your stuff does't work like it should.

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Sat May 23, 2015 11:39 am ]
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Quote: Sorry Rick, but there is nothing for these piston manufacturers to fix. I will say this and then I will be done. Perhaps "fix" is not the right word. Maybe "change" would be better. I am very thankful that we have a good forged piston that we can get and the rods to go with them. Here is my take: There was a need for a forged piston they provided We wanted it to work with 7.0" rods, they provided We wanted a modern set of rings to go with them, they provided We wanted large overbore capability, they provided We wanted deep valve notches for high lift cams, they provided. Now, that valve notch hits the edge of the valve on the very first sets they make. Is it that big of a deal after you did all the custom work above to machine that valve notch .060-.080 larger right out of the box on the next run? Maybe so, but I doubt it. 90% of us are running bigger valves anyway, so it sure would be nice. Rick Just hope everyone is ready to cut me the same slack that we give to multi million companies when I do my Hyperpak manifolds.

Author:	CNC-Dude [ Sat May 23, 2015 4:51 pm ]
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Quote: Just hope everyone is ready to cut me the same slack that we all give to multi million companies when I do my Hyperpak manifolds. I think your fixing to experience the reality these other companies face, and that is one part doesn't fit all engines equally the same. Your manifolds may fit the few test heads you have on your bench, but they will not fit a large percentage of cylinder heads out here in the world the same as yours. They are going to fit some better than yours, and some not good enough the customer will even feel comfortable using them. The bolt holes may line up, but the port alignment may be way off either left to right or side to side, or any number of other issues like having to grind the exhaust flange to let the intake flange fit between them. Some intakes may fit without grinding, some won't fit without having to grind both the intake and exhaust flanges. There will be no compromise on how you can make all of the issues go away and let everyone have their cake and eat it too. The point is that you are taking a component that is not machined to very accurate standards and using it as your standard to fit your manifolds too. I have run into that situation many times in the years I have designed and made parts for car stuff. It doesn't matter how precision you keep your product specs conforming too, its the hundreds of thousands of parts your product mates to that are made to lesser quality and precision that you have to worry about. And unfortunately, you can't change all those other parts. Good luck with your venture, I know you'll find satisfaction in the fact you created and offered a product that is neat and cool, but there is always a can of worms that will also be opened up too, so be prepared for this going into this project so you won't be caught off guard.

Author:	slantzilla [ Sat May 23, 2015 9:28 pm ]
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Rick, they didn't make us special pistons, they just found a forging that was close enough to work.

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Sun May 24, 2015 3:49 am ]
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Quote: they just found a forging that was close enough to work. Yep, I am sure you are right.

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Author:	Rick Covalt [ Sun May 24, 2015 11:43 am ]
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Our engine builder has a machine set up to do valve reliefs all the time in the shop. So is there a concensus on how much larger they need to go? Greg said about 1/8". Are only the intakes involved? Or exhaust also? Thanks!