Chebies are longer, from my research, around 7.8"

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

I'll be darned. I wonder why I did not simply use a Cheby tans? That takes away a couple of good jokes too.

Sam

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Lou i respectfully disagree, i was reading my book "How to rebuild and modify your manual transmission" by Robert Bowen (who also happens to be a member of this site) and i quote "In addition to several different front bearing diameters, there are two common T-5 bell housing bolt patterns: Ford and GM. The ford bolt pattern is similar to that used for the old toploader 4 speed, although its narrower. The two top bolts are 7.875" from center to center . All Ford T-5's use this bolt pattern. The GM pattern is the same as the muncie, T10, and other "standard" GM trans missions used in the 1960's and 1970's . The two top bolts are 8.125" apart, and the mounting bolts are in distinctive "ears" that stick out from the sides of the case.

GM NWC transmissions and WC transmissions used behind the GM V8 use the GM bolt pattern, while the chevette T-5 and later GM V6 WC transmissions use the ford bolt pattern. AMC, Isuzu, and nissan T-5 transmissions use the ford bolt pattern as well. In the Comaro/ firebird, the transmission is installed canted over at a 15 degree angle counter clockwise. the bell housing bolt pattern is there for slightly off square, as is the transmission mount pad at the end of the extension housing.

The most common imput shaft diameters and spline counts are those used on the ford and GM T-5's. All Ford T-5 have a 1.0625" diameter shaft with 10 splines. The input shaft on V8 transmissions from 1983-1993 is 7.18" long with a .668" diameter tip for the pilot bearing. The Ford 4 cylinder boxes use a longer shaft (7.41") and a smaller diameter pilot bearing (.590") than the V8 version.

The input shaft on transmissions used behind ford V8 and V6 engines from 1994-2005 is 7.85" long with the V8 pilot diameter. The very latest ford V6 transmissions are internally the same as previous V8 transmissions with the exception of the longer inout shaft. A new, short input shaft can be used to bolt them to the early V8 bell housing, although there is no way to use a mechanical speedometer.

All T-5's used behind GM engines have a .590" input bearing diameter. V8 engines use a 1.125" diameter shaft with 26 splines, while 4 cyl and V6 transmissions have a 1", 14 spline shaft. Both are 7.18" long. Late V6 transmissions used in comaros and firebirds ( with the standard Ford bell housing bolt pattern) have a slightly shorter (7.14") input shaft with the V8 diameter and spline count.

-Mike

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I am the Guardian, I hate helos, everything leaks.......

OK, you've got a good reference there. I distinctly remember someone saying they had a V6 camaro trans with a 7.8" input length, but they could have had a Ford trans...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Thanks for that good research Mike. That post should be included in a sticky about the t-5 conversion. It seems as if the later Ford, after '94 would be the easier conversion piece. They have an input shaft .4" longer than the 4 cylinder one I used. I wonder if that would be too long to swap into my car? If it would go, that would simplify the replacement of it should I decide to upgrade from the weaker 4 cylinder unit. Another benefit would be to get a longer first gear in there. I see I would have to replace the pilot bearing as the diameter is slightly larger on the later versions.

In any event, if you used a '94 and later T-5, you could make your adapter plate a full 1" thick, and it would work out just right to have the pilot bearing sit in the hub of the crank,(not the original pilot bearing spot).

AT this point in time I no longer remember the logic of it, but I canted my T-5 over the 15 degrees you mentioned. It makes the shifter box level to do this, so that must have been my logic. I never saw the transmission mounted in a car, but somehow I knew to do this.

Mike, you used two different terms which might, or might not be referring to the same thing: Sometimes you said pilot bearing, and sometimes input shaft bearing. Are you referring to the same thing in both cases? Or,when you say input shaft bearing, are you referring to the one in the case? I just want to make sure I understand correctly the information here. Great research though. Thanks again. That is a huge help to anyone thinking of making this conversion.

Mike does it say in your book what the two electronic cables coming out of the case are for? I think one of them is for the back up lights. I don't remember which one, and it might be nice to wire them up. What is the other one for? Thanks.

Sam

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Mike, does your book tell you anything about the comparative strength of the different models? Why do they list the standard torque rating as being 175-220 ft lbs? Which is it, 175, or 220?

Sam

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The input shaft bearing is the one in the case, and the pilot bearing is the one in the end of the crankshaft.

if its an early T-5 (pre-'94) then its the neutral safety switch, '94 and up stangs had the neutral safety switch moved to the clutch pedal.

Pilot bearing is in the end of the crank shaft, normally a brass insert.

Input shaft bearing is the bearing at the front of the trans, the hole in our 4spd bells need to be opened up a bit so it fits.

the input bearing retainer is what the throwout bearing rides on.

as far as torque ratings:

93-96 "Cobra spec"- tappered roller bearings between input and main shafts. 3.35 first gear and .68 OD 310ftlb torque rating also it uses a steel input bearing retainer instead of the aluminium one found in all other ford T-5's.

'93+ "Z-spec" same as above plus higher, closer gear ratios and a short throw shifter. first gear was 2.95 and OD was .63. and rated at 330ftlb torque, but has been tested and has shown to handle 400ftlb torque.

early V8 T-5s are rated at 265ftlb
4cyl T-5's are rated at 240ftlb of torque

when the new mustang V6 was released in 2005 the T-5 was upgraded again, now it has a 3.76 first gear and a .72 OD and the torque rating remains the same 300ftlb

from what i understand '90 and newer V8 T-5 are rated at 300ftlb torque
the '94-'98 1/2 V6's have a 3.35 first gear and .72 OD

-Mike

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I am the Guardian, I hate helos, everything leaks.......

Thanks again Mike. My trans is an '87, which is supposedly the "world class" design, which I have been told has different bearings. Are these World Class units still rated at 240 ft/lbs of torque? That is not much below the 265 of the standard V-8 model, so it would not be worth the trouble to upgrade unless the later, higher torque version were located. These numbers make me feel better about the T-5 that is in there now. It still has that awkward ultra low first gear though. You have been an enormous help here. Thanks.

Sam

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up to 1990 the 4cyl T-5's are rated to 240ftlb of torque. -Mike

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I am the Guardian, I hate helos, everything leaks.......

Do the V-6 Ford T-5's from 94-2005 have the longer input shaft PLUS the smaller pilot bearing diameter, or did they go up to the larger size at that time? I have scanned this info posted by Mike in earlier posts many times, and I guess I need to summarize in a chart of some kind. If so, then a Ford v-6 would be the easiest stronger T-5 to adapt to a slant bellhousing and crank. Either way, that is probably true. I don't suppose it would be hard to find a pilot bearing set up for either one.

For what it is worth, I held that pilot bearing in the back of the crank with Green Locktight. It has been in there for many years now.

Sam

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i know this is an old thread and this may be a stupid questions but if you were to find a transmission with the input shaft that is to long, couldnt you just trim the input shaft instead of running a plate?

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1966 Plymouth Valiant, 225, 3 on the tree, 8 1/4 3.21 sure grip, hyperpac, holley 650dp, holset h1c

You would think so. Junior, I am pretty sure my stuff is going to be for sale eventually.

Sam

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let me know when it does. i was kinda looking as a winter project though. either way let me know when they are available.

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1966 Plymouth Valiant, 225, 3 on the tree, 8 1/4 3.21 sure grip, hyperpac, holley 650dp, holset h1c