Hey Mr. T,
Did this.
Did this. The Case of the Alternator Regulator got slightly warm. Wire's did not.
Did this.
Did this. Voltage at the Battery with the Engine running was 11.90 Volts. With the Engine shut down, voltage at the Battery was 12.0 Volts.
The problem persisted!

This means that either the Alternator, the Alternator Regulator, OR the Battery are toasted. All of these are NEW units.

After the test, the Alternator Regulator was uninstalled and the Case taken off. The Fusible Wires are still intact.

Need to uninstall the Alternator and take it to Smith Auto Electric along with the NEW Alternator Regulator, AND the Battery to have them tested.

Mr. T, in the process of installing the Fuel Gauge, and then the rerouting of Wires to separate the Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit Circuitry, from the Start/Run/Charge Circuitry, Lorrie's Wiring has become a jumble.

And it could be that having the Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit Circuitry hooked up where it was in conflict with the Start/Run/Charge Circuitry might have caused something else to happen within the Wiring.

Was thinking last night that maybe Lorrie's Circuitry should just be totally rewired.

It isn't hard to do because everything is easily accessible.

Anyway, that's it for today.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

He is so full of part no.'s I am surprised he can even function "normally".... WAIT maybe he actually can't....

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Thats the way it usually goes, from a small bundle of wires to a rat's nest... Its a possibility, but not a probability if no smoke was released during the initial testing/starting of vehicle... ( ya do know the smoke test dont you?) Its a simple enough circuit to do this with minimum parts required, but then again if you do re-wire, I would upgrade to the 'new' style blade fuses, use relays on the heavy current circuits, and put even a universal key type switch for the on/start circuits. Thats a plus, but its just another expense, especially if you do the aforementioned "upgrades". Hope the weather holds for you to get somethings done today, as the weather here has been pleasurable compared to last year... ( yesterdays high was 71, compared to last years 103 )

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey All,
Friday Evening Update:

Am not down over this. Am just feeling helpless because everything that can be done has been done, and though everything is EXACTLY as it should be, the System doesn't work.

And in the process of trying to make the System work, the System is destroying its Components.

There are no extraneous Parts, and no extraneous Circuits.

Nothing is hooked up that isn't ABSOLUTELY necessary.

The Charge Circuit involves: A Battery; an Alternator; an Alternator Regulator; and an Ammeter; all connected properly.

Every Circuit has been checked, double checked, triple checked, and beyond, and still, it doesn't work.

Went out again this morning and had a wonderful time.

Checked EVERY Connection. Took some of them apart, cleaned, and reinstalled the Connection.

Checked EVERY Circuit for continuity, and for being properly routed and assembled.

EVERYTHING is EXACTLY as it should be.

The ONLY problem is that the Charge System doesn't work.

The addition of a Volt Meter has been and is being considered. If there isn't anything wrong with Lorrie's Ammeter, would like to keep it because it has worked faithfully since 1985 when it was installed, and was working properly just a short time ago.

When Lorrie's Start/Run/Charge System was ORIGINALLY installed, it worked PERFECTLY. And it worked PERFECTLY until the NEW Fuel Gauge/Sending Unit was installed.

The power for the Fuel Gauge had to come from a source that would supply electricity when the Engine was running.

It was obtained by tapping into the Wire that goes FROM the Run Switch TO the IGN Terminal of the Alternator Regulator.

Since then, the Start and Run Systems are STILL functioning PERFECTLY.

But the Charge System has ceased to function.

This was attributed to the tapping into the Wire FROM the Run Switch TO the IGN Terminal of the Alternator Regulator in order to supply the "switched" 12 Volts to the Fuel Gauge and only be ON while the Run Switch was ON.

When it was suspected that this was what was causing the NO-Charge problem, the tap was removed from the Wire FROM the Run Switch TO the IGN Terminal of the Alternator Regulator, and the electricity necessary for the functioning of the Fuel Gauge was rerouted FROM a Fuse on the Fuse Panel TO a Toggle Switch, and FROM the Toggle Switch to the "I" Terminal of the Fuel Gauge.

So NOW, the Start/Run/Charge System Circuit is once again ISOLATED to just the Components necessary to make the Engine Start, Run, and Charge.

EVERYTHING is EXACTLY as it should be.

The Battery is NEW... In fact, the NEW Battery was removed this morning, and the Duracell Battery out of Ms. American was installed. It didn't change ANYTHING.

The Alternator presently installed in Lorrie is NEW, though it was installed BEFORE the NEW Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit Circuit was re-routed.

It was installed after it was suspected that the OLD Alternator had somehow ceased to function.

The OLD Alternator was subsequently tested by AutoZone and pronounced "non-functional".

An hour later, it was tested by Smith Auto Electric, and pronounce "functioning normally".

The OLD Alternator Regulator was then suspected of being non-functional, and was replaced with a NEW Alternator Regulator.

It didn't change ANYTHING.

This was done BEFORE the re-routing of the Fuel Gauge/Sending Unit Circuit.

Later, this NEW Alternator Regulator was tested by Smith Auto Electric and was pronounced "non-functional".

It was at this point that the re-routing of the NEW Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit System Circuitry was done.

So what Lorrie has NOW is a NEW Alternator Regulator.

Lorrie also has a NEW Alternator that MAY or MAY NOT be functioning because it was installed BEFORE the NEW Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit System Circuitry was rerouted. BUT the OLD Alternator was also in the System BEFORE the NEW Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit System Circuitry was rerouted, and Smith Auto Electric says it is "functional", so there is no reason to believe that the NEW Alternator is NOT functioning, though there is no charge indicated by the Ammeter when Lorrie's Engine is running. Neither is there any charge indicated at the Battery Terminals when checked with a Multi-Tester.

The Circuit FROM the BATT Terminal of the Alternator TO the IN Terminal of the Ammeter, and FROM the OUT Terminal of the Ammeter to the HOT Side of the Fuse Panel has continuity, BUT, it is unknown whether the Ammeter is functional or not. The fact is that there no charge indicated by the Ammeter when Lorrie's Engine is running. Neither is the any charge indicated at the Battery Terminals when checked with a Multi-Tester.

Also, when Lorrie's Engine is running, the voltage level at the Battery is 1/10 of a volt LOWER than when Lorrie's Engine is NOT running. Which is an indication that while the Battery is not being charged, it is also not being depleted of electricity to any great degree by Lorrie's Engine when it is running.

Lorrie's Engine runs REALLY good.

It starts easily, settles into an idle immediately, warms up quickly, runs smoothly with no misses once it is at operating temperature, and when the Run Switch is clicked to OFF, the Engine immediately quits, with no run on, diesel-ing or whatever one wants to call the Engine continuing to run after the electricity is turned OFF.

Have a feeling that the problem is being caused by something either very SIMPLE, over-looked, or it might be something SUPERNATURAL!

Remember, "My Mother, The Car"?

"Ladies and gentlemen, meet 'Lorrie Van Haul, the Truck!',"

And remember this: Lorrie has undergone a somewhat remarkable transformation from being a lowly government worker in metropolitan Houston, Texas back in 1975, to being a bit of a "notorious character" and very likely the last one of her kind.

After losing her job with the Post Office, she was still young enough to enjoy going all over the place, which she did. She has been up to Eugene, Oregon, to Hollywood, California, to San Diego, California, to Las Vegas, Nevada, to New Orleans, Louisiana, and all points in between.

Then she was neglected for almost thirteen years.

In the past two and a half years, she has once again morphed back into being a somewhat more modern, rebuilt, older "character".

She's not convinced that the way she is NOW is the way she wants to be.

Remember: You can take the worker out of the government, but you can't take the government out of the worker.

Anyway, what to do next?

Tomorrow morning, will uninstall the present NEW Alternator, and re-install the OLD Alternator which Smith Auto Electric says it a functioning unit.

Then will run the Alligator Clip Jumper Wire Test again. This will tell if during the last test, if the Alternator was the Core Component that was not functioning.

Will let you know the results.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I feels your pain ...my 96 ultra will charge at idle 14v take rpm up to 2000 and above volts drop to ...have replaced stator and regulator and done all tests...still same problem eeeeeeerrrrrrrr I HATE ELECTRICS!!!!!!!!!!!weather been real nice riding weather here also , been at this for over a month

Hey Mr. H,
Misery LOVES company!
THAT is VERY strange.
"Stator"?
Have NOT yet developed a hatred for things electrical, but HAVE been having the onset of a feeling of HELPLESSNESS born of the fact that there is NOTHING left to examine in the search for the solution to the NOT CHARGING problem.
Same here.

Am afraid that Lorrie Van Haul is aught but a piece of ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY USELESS JUNK in perfect condition.

Kind of like Paris Hilton and Lindsey Lohan!

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. OF,
Right.
"Smoke Test"?
Would be nice to be able to afford to do that. ALAS...
Which isn't going to happen.
It's pretty nice here this morning. Cool, but humid. Going to turn into a bitch around noon.
But the year is still young.

Have not yet had to use the Air Conditioner. Alas, that is but a temporary situation, I'm sure.

Anyway, am going to be running what is called: A "Full Field" Test today:

Am going to connect the BATT Terminal of the Alternator to the Positive Pole of the Battery.

Am going to connect the Field Terminal of the Alternator to the IN Terminal of a Push ON, Release OFF Mil-Spec Switch.

Am going to connect the Out Terminal of the Push ON, Release OFF Mil-Spec Switch to the Negative Pole of the Battery.

Am going to set the Multi-Tester up to measure the Voltage across the Battery's Terminals.

Will start the Engine.

Will press the Push ON, Release OFF Switch.

Will note the Voltage across the Battery Terminals.

If there is Voltage, the Alternator is functional.

If there is NO Voltage, the Alternator is non-functional.

This test has been recommended by a person who does this kind of work.

Is there any reason NOT to do this test?

Am not going to actually DO the test till someone like Mr. Al T, Daniel, or yourself say that it's alright to do.

Anyway, that it for this morning. Have some other communications of which to take care, and then it will be out to work on Lorrie.

Hang in there.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Yes JC the test is safe... All that does is eliminate all of the other wiring/fuse panel etc.... Ah the "Smoke Test", in electronics/electrical work the smoke test refers to the LETTING OUT all the smoke that is contained in said parts, which its usually BAD... I WAS going to suggest to you even though a continuity was being shown THRU the Amp gauge to temporarily remove from circuit and jumper/connect the two wires and start and test battery voltage then... If a charge is indicated then you KNOW where the "buck stops",,, But the aforementioned test will do the same.. If this is the problem (bad gauge) I would permanently tie the wires together and replace with a Volt Gauge, as they DO NOT carry high current they just measure the voltage. (which can be tapped off of the amp gauge wires you connected together and to volt gauge then to ground. Good Luck.. hope the weather holds.. Comparing this year around here to last is turning out to be a blessing.. The 103 i referred to was the beginning of our record stretch of 48 days in a row of 100+ temps and the beginning of the drought in this area... ended up with only 5 -6 inches of yearly rainfall, normal is high teens...

Hope thins finds YOU well...

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

On another note we need to get together and write a book on "How to Properly Deal with Mule Meat"

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Morning JC. I want to go back to isolating the charging circuit. Here's a suggestion- Create a charging circuit completely separate from all car wiring.
1. Get a second battery and place it on the ground outside the car.
2. Get a second voltage reg connector (triangular rubber plug with the green and blue wires) along with the blue and green wires.
3. Disconnect the installed voltage reg plug and instal this second wiring plug.
4. Disconnect the installed blue & green wires at the back of the alt, insulate and set aside.
5. Attach the second green and blue wires to the alt in normal fashion.
6. Disconnect the installed battery terminal wire on the back of the alt and after insulating the end, set it aside.
7. Now connect the jumper from the outside car battery to the battery terminal
8. Now ground the alt housing to the battery neg pole on the outside battery
9. Ground the voltage reg to the alt housing using a jumper.
10. Now run a jumper from the blue voltage reg wire (ign) to the battery positive

Now the car can run off the electricty supplied by the installed battery. This will drive the alt but you've COMPLETELY isolated the charging system. Now redo the test and swap components as required on this separte system to find the faulty component.

That's all I got . . .

_________________
Cheers!
Al T

Hey Mr. OF,
GREAT! And thanks for the prompt response. This will make it to where it can be done this morning while it's still cool here.
Yes. It makes finding out if the Alternator is functional without having to uninstall it and drive it to Smith Auto Electric.
HAVE heard that if all the smoke is let out of the part that it won't work anymore.

Have to tell you something. The other day when the Charge System had gotten a NEW Alternator Regulator, it immediately put out an "electrical" odor. This would have cause MUCH consternation had it not been for the fact that on the Instruction Sheet that came with the Alternator Regulator was the caveat that the Alternator Regulator MIGHT create an "electrical" odor, but that THAT would be normal, caused by the burning off of the varnish used to hold the wire winding in place on the Resistors on the back of the unit during manufacture.
The presence of charge when by-passing of the Ammeter would in be an indication that the Ammeter is the culprit?
If a 2-5/8" Volt Meter was obtained, could it be put into the Dash Panel in place of the Ammeter and hooked to the same Wires?
By connecting the Wire FROM the BATT Terminal of the Alternator TO the IN Terminal of the Ammeter TO the Wire that comes FROM the OUT Terminal of the Ammeter to the HOT side of the Fuse Panel would be the same as connecting the Wire that comes FROM the BATT Terminal of the Alternator to the HOT Side of the Fuse Panel.

Couldn't this be done just by putting a 12 Gauge Alligator Clip Jumper Wire from the BATT Terminal of the Alternator to the HOT Side of the Fuse Panel, and then measuring the Voltage at the Battery Terminals with the Multi-Testor?
Thanks.
It's nice here this morning.
Last year was a REAL ordeal. Hopefully this year will NOT be a repeat, though I wouldn't count on it.
Am experiencing some amount of trepidation in the face of doing these tests. It's a sadness akin to feeling helpless.

Anyway, will keep you updated.

Thanks for the response.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. OF,
First, you get a mule that wasn't likable to keep from having trepidations about slaughtering him. Problem is, I have yet to meet an animal for which I didn't feel some amount of affection and empathy.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Good morning Mr. T,
Alright.
This can be done.
Mr. T, Lorrie doesn't have anything LIKE this "second voltage reg connector".

All Lorrie has is a Wire FROM the Run Switch TO the IGN Terminal of the Alternator Regulator.

And a Wire FROM the Field Terminal of the Alternator TO the Field Terminal of the Alternator Regulator.

The Ground is through the Mounting Bracket.
Non-existent on Lorrie.
Non-existent on Lorrie.
Non-existent on Lorrie.
This could be done.
This could be done.
This could be done.
This could be done.
Non-existent on Lorrie.
Alright.
Understand what is being done here, but since the ONLY Core Components involved are the Alternator, Alternator Regulator, Battery and Ammeter, would think that the impending "Full Field" Test of the Alternator will determine if the Alternator is functional or not.

And by-passing the Ammeter would determine if the Ammeter is functional or not.

The Alternator Regulator is NEW and appears to be functioning normally, as is the Battery.

So what we are chasing is the functionality of the Alternator and the Ammeter.

Mr. T, have the impression that Lorrie's Start/Run/Charge System Circuitry and YOUR vision of it are not coincident.

Lorrie's Alternator Regulator is an Electro-Mechanical device, not an Electronic version.


This test STILL might be able to be done, but it would take some clarifications of specifics if and when the time comes that we'll have to do it.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time and making the effort to assist. It is GREATLY appreciated.

We'll figure this out yet. Wait and see.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Just finished the "Full Field" Test of Lorrie's Alternator.

Disconnected the Field Terminal of the Alternator.

Connected the BATT Terminal of the Alternator TO the Positive Post of the Battery.

Connected the Field Terminal of the Alternator TO the IN Terminal of a Push ON/Release OFF Switch.

Connected the OUT Terminal of the Push ON/Release OFF Switch to the Negative Post of the Battery.

Connected the Negative Battery Cable to the Negative Post of the Battery.

Connected the Positive Lead of the Multi-Tester to the Positive Pole of the Battery.

Connected the Common Lead of the Multi-Tester to the Negative Pole of the Battery.

Multi-Tester showed 11.97 Volts at the Battery WITHOUT the Engine running.

Started the Engine.

Multi-Tester indicated 11.87 Volts at the Battery WITH the Engine running

Pushed the Push ON/Release OFF Switch.

Multi-Tester indicated 11.87 Volts at the Battery WITH the Engine running.

Increased the Engine RPMs.

Multi-Tester indicated 11.87 Volts at the Battery WITH the Engine running.

The test results indicate that the Alternator is non-functional.

Am going to replace the present Alternator with the one that Smith Auto Electric says is a functional unit in a bit when Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine is cooled off.

With the Fuel Gauge System Circuitry COMPLETELY separate from the Charge System Circuitry, along with a NEW Alternator Regulator, along with a known functioning Alternator, Lorrie hopefully will show a charge on her Ammeter.

Only time will tell.

Will let you know how it all works out.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Yes, you got it...
NO!! a volt meter is not made to carry CURRENT as the amp meter is...
Yes
Yes.
Dont feel that way JC... you/we will figure this out eventually

Sorry for the delay, was off wondering the WWW...

_________________
MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...