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My HEI upgrade not right, need some direction.
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50446		 Page 3 of 3
Author:  scottdart [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:46 pm ]
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So then my various voltage readings that I listed in my prior post, are all correct? What about the fact that when I test the voltage on the coils positive side when starting up, it's registering around 9+volts? Shouldn't it be 12v?
Author:  Mroldfart2u [ Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:41 am ]
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Scott I am digesting. I just now (sat) came back to thread. Thats a big voltage drop every-where. (even at the bat when cranking seems a little much, but should start I am thinking (if the engine is spinning fast enough to start) I think my first area of attack at this point would be to take the bulkhead connector apart and clean all the connections, and put it back together using dielectric grease.

You CAN check check cranking voltages also with out actually cranking the engine by removing the bat cable from the starter, to get an idea of actual voltage drops or voltage gains for the ign1/ign2 systems. (the switched to 12v while cranking) Plus it saves the heavy drain on battery and the heating of the starter while testing. If the starter is "dragging" that will cause a lower than normal voltage. (Most box stores will test free, just have to remove it and take it to them to test. They can tell you if its drawing to much current.

The factory ECU needs full voltage as does the HEI system. As i think thats where the problem lies, not enough actual available voltage while cranking. ( both systems having the same issue) Is your battery large enough?

Anyone else is welcomed for inputs here, I seem to be sinking.... :wink: :wink:
Author:  scottdart [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I think my first area of attack at this point would be to take the bulkhead connector apart and clean all the connections, and put it back together using dielectric grease.
I did install a new bulkhead connector when I began this project. Here's a link showing the bulkhead connector I got ..slantsixdan recommended it:
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/weat ... p-364.html

Installing the new connector, I followed the directions and as they did not mention anything about using dielectric grease, I didn't use any.

All my wires that go to my ignition switch have also been tested at the the point of connection on the switch itself, and the readings there are the same as they are when I test them throughout the engine.

Whats the best way to test to find the voltage drop? Do you start at the battery and go backwards? I have a wiring diagram and just think maybe if I can get a idea of what the proper testing sequence is, maybe then I can see if the volts are being lost at the bulkhead connector. Remember, other than wires for the lights and wipers, I'm using a brand new wire harness for electronic ignition set-ups.

Last of all, a mechanic friend of my fathers came by yesterday. He has been working on cars for over 40 yrs and has seen his share of slant 6 engines, and has also installed HEI on many. Anyway, he came by looked around, did just a few checks ...and within 30 min he pronounced that the problem is the timing chain. I mentioned respectfully the voltage readings I was getting, but he said everything will work fine once we get a new chain.

I know he's been doing this longer than I've been drawing breaths, but I would love to hear some opinions about his diagnosis. He said he's 100% sure it will start up w/ the new chain.
:?:
Author:  wjajr [ Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:42 pm ]
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I would have battery load tested at a parts store after a good long charging. It should show about 12.5 to 13 volts fully charged.

Secondly you have a voltage drop somewhere in these circuits. Drop is caused by poor connections, the usual suspects being negative and positive battery terminals, where negative battery cable attaches to engine block, ignition switch, and bulkhead connections… which you have corrected all ready.

The next place to look for drop is on the ground side of any of these ignition circuits, that is chassis (metal body) of spark controller, voltage regulator, and alternator case. All these devices should show almost no drop back to battery negative terminal such as 0.02 volts.

The way to check for drop between points in a circuit is to place black VOM probe on battery plus terminal, and the red probe at a point in circuit.
Example: To read voltage from battery to starter relay to bulkhead side of fusible link, plant black probe on + battery terminal, and red probe at the brass connection at bulkhead connector. Ideally there should be no drop in this short hot run of large gage wire. In other words the voltage at both ends should be the same, if you see .1 or .2 V drop, clean battery terminals, remake bolt & nut connection at starter relay, and test for drop across fusible link to narrow down the possible problem.

Next extend length of black probe with a jumper long enough to allow probing of connections at bulkhead under dash & ignition switch with black probe still at battery. Using a wire diagram follow the flow from battery + terminal as it passes through bulkhead connector to ignition switch. Then at switch turned on you will be checking run 1, and run 2 at any connections back out through bulkhead connector to coil spark controller etc. Record any drop at each test point on a copy of wire diagram to easily keep track of your progress. Once this tedious irksome task is completed you will have a clear picture of where any drop problems are and can correct them. Remember as you test at different points along the current path all the individual small voltage drops are adding to the previous drops. By having one probe on battery and the other at terminus of circuit, the reading will be the sum of all individual drops. Checking along the path will show where each problem is occurring.

Next you need to check drop on ground side of voltage regulator, spark controller or GM HEI and alternator case from negative battery terminal. Any drop in ground path has to be corrected to zero. The easiest method of correction is to run a ground loop of #14 wire with crimped eyes attaching under one securing screw at each device, and back to negative battery terminal; this will eliminate all ground side voltage drop.

A good goal would be to keep total voltage drop to not more than 0.2 volts

As you test with key on and engine not running, battery voltage will slowly drop over time so keeping charger handy will keep battery up. Once you get the engine to run, you can repeat any test points that were a problem.

Where the engine ran before striping old ignition system, I don’t think there is a substantial timing chain problem rather a wiring problem, and or electrical component problem.
Author:  mattelderca [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:33 am ]
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I'd check the chain before going further. It's easy enough to do.
A compression test might show it but lifting the valve cover will be better.
Bring number one up on tdc and see what the valves are doing. Also check the distributor rotor and see how far off that is.
Rotate the engine a turn clockwise while watching the rotor, then turn the engine back counter clockwise slowly and see how far it takes before the rotor starts to turn. If there is lots of slop you should see it.
With all the cranking and playing around it might have jumped a few teeth.
Author:  frank79912 [ Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  igition
The module is marked for power and ground-GM wants full voltage to that module, You need 300 mv a/c cranking voltage out of the distributor for the module to work right.Adjust the air gap on the pick up. It will run with the module wired backward but poorly. The coil terminals are one side power the other ground. So the module get fed by power thru the coil.I have to look at mine but I think the module is kitty cornerd connected to the coil terminals.The ground sided from the module extra terminal is tach.
Author:  scottdart [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:43 am ]
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Still working out the problem w/ my car. We have it starting up and running now, but it's not quite where it needs to be yet. We did find that the Votlage Regulator was bad and so I got one that was recommended here on the forums Standard bluestreak VR-128.

The only problem w/ the new VR is that it doesn't fit w/ my connector plug that I had going to my old VR. My connector has a triangular shape and was held by metal clips on either side. This new Voltage Regulator does not have this connection design. Instead, it simply has a red wire coming from the body and it has a black male connector over it.

Question: How do I connect my old voltage regulator wires w/ the old triangular shape plug, to this new VR w/ it's totally different connector. Plus I have 2 wires that used to go to my regulator, this new regulator only has one going to it from it's connector ...How do I make this work?

Thanks
Author:  64ragtop [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:37 pm ]
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I think I found the solution to your voltage regulator connection problem. Check here:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/searc ... +regulator

One thing that is ABSOLUTELY necessary is that the case of your regulator gets a good ground. When you mount the regulator use sheet metal screws and use internal star lock washers. Use a little sandpaper to remove any paint, rust, or corrosion where the regulator is going, and sand the back sides or the regulator's mounting ears. A little dielectric grease where the screw, washers, regulator and firewall come together will make a better, longer lasting connection.

ATB and Happy Boxing Day

BC
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
A little dielectric grease where the screw, washers, regulator and firewall come together will make a better, longer lasting connection.

ATB and Happy Boxing Day

BC
A dielectric is an insulator. Do not use a dielectric where you want to improve an electrical connection. You're better off with a little white grease if you're looking to reduce corrosion at electrical connections. NO-OX-ID is what you want to improve conductivity. http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html
Author:  64ragtop [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
A little dielectric grease where the screw, washers, regulator and firewall come together will make a better, longer lasting connection.

ATB and Happy Boxing Day

BC
A dielectric is an insulator. Do not use a dielectric where you want to improve an electrical connection. You're better off with a little white grease if you're looking to reduce corrosion at electrical connections. NO-OX-ID is what you want to improve conductivity. http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html
I stand corrected! Gotta plead BRAIN FART here. I have also used white grease and plain old wheel bearing grease. The object being to keep air and moisture from creating corrosion in the connection. I've not used NO-OX-ID, but thought it was for prevention of corrosion with dissimilar metals. Corrosion is what it is, and the cause is irrelevant. It's always bad news in any electrical connection. Thanks, Joshua.

ATB

BC
Author:  scottdart [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
I think I found the solution to your voltage regulator connection problem. Check here:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/searc ... +regulator
Thanks for the link, but as I mentioned I already have the Standard bluestreak VR-128 which does not have the triangular connector point. So either there is a way to make mine fit to the VR-128 or I'll have to send it back and get one like on your link ...but from what I read on the forums the VR-128 from standard is the one to get, so surely there must be a way to connect it to the old ( triangular) plug.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:18 am ]
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The VR-128 is for the older Mopars with a single field alternator connection. It cannot be used with an alternator with two field connections, with out doing some rewiring. It would be better to used the later style regulator with the "triangular" connector.
Author:  64ragtop [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think I found the solution to your voltage regulator connection problem. Check here:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/searc ... +regulator
Thanks for the link, but as I mentioned I already have the Standard bluestreak VR-128 which does not have the triangular connector point. So either there is a way to make mine fit to the VR-128 or I'll have to send it back and get one like on your link ...but from what I read on the forums the VR-128 from standard is the one to get, so surely there must be a way to connect it to the old ( triangular) plug.
Oh, sure there is a way. I've always heard that with enough time and money it's possible to put anything into anything!! My question to you is how willing are you to cut up your new wiring harness to make something fit that was not designed to? Compare that to the simplicity of just plugging your existing triangular plug into a new V.R. like the ones in that link. Then you'll be able to work on your other difficulties. That'd be a REAL simple choice for me, but of course your mileage may vary.

ATB

BC
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