Do like the last guy that called them and promise they'll sell thousands........
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| aluminum slant six head from 1959? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63187 |
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
Do like the last guy that called them and promise they'll sell thousands........
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
Greg, The offer still stands to put up $10k (or even $5k) to front development of a Slant 6 head. Lou |
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
An Edgy Dodge head is basically is 1959 L-head technology costs $1,200 and I don't think they are profitable because I heard that Earl sold the patterns to the Montana guys. Check out the F-head conversion - the $1,750 is the deposit. The alloy heads claim to have higher than stock compression - mostly they just look good. Earl was charging $850. If you use a stock 236 head on a 265, I believe that increases the compression about the same as this. http://www.moparmontana.com/store/c3/CY ... HEADS.html This is a deposit only you will be billed for the remaining $7,000.00 USD when the heads are CAST There seem to be a lot of physicians and high dollar professionals into Mopar flatheads. Maybe the nostalgia image will be with the slant six in the same way. But you'll still have to pony up to play! |
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| Author: | GregCon [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
I hardly see the challenge in a flathead aftermarket head...you could pretty much mill your own out of a chunk of aluminum. Well, it would be great if Edelbrock made a head...because you know it would be done right without porosity issues or other such problems. But....like anything there has to be a 'business case' behind it. |
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| Author: | jcc [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
Quote: Just for fun, I contacted Edelbrock to ask if they just might be working up an aluminum head for the Slant Six. I warned them that if they weren't, I might just have to buy from one of their competitors - that usually gets the trick done.
I suspect the same could be said for every head they ever produced , except the first one.Their reply, "At this time we have no plans to start producing cylinder heads for the Mopar Slant Six." I'm thinking this is an intentionally misleading statement, since we all know the Slant Six uses only ONE head, not plural.... Yes, Edelbrock is the logical manufacturer, no need to reinvent the wheel. I remember approaching Mopar in the very late 80's about SB Alum heads and alum 8.75" carriers, ran into the same stonewall never going to happen type thinking. This was a high up well respected engineer/racer with Chrysler. Obviously somebody changed their mind. |
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
No manufacturer will take this on because the head has design compromises that can't be engineered out to a degree that would make that much of a difference without altering the basic layout of the head. You can't address the small valves without canting the valves, that requires new rocker arm geometry and probably port layout as well - the pushrod locations are fixed in the block so you can't get too creative there. If it isn't a bolt-on for the target market of hobby users then the costs of the package would be prohibitive - much greater than $1,000 and few would buy. The only party that could have addressed this need was Chrysler back in the 1980s, it would have been a bigger change than smallblock LA to Magnum heads, they let the slant six fade out because they have to earn a profit. I would have liked to see GM use LS type heads on the Chevy inline six, but it was out of production a decade before that could have come about. I'd like to have seen the Jeep 4.0 updated too. If you have $1,000 to spend on a slant six head you can modify an iron head to get better return on your money. Many of us are pleased with 160 hp. Only a few racers can justify spending high dollars for a head - they could mill one from billet. Any retired highly skilled volunteers with deep pockets ? That's the only way to do this. Maybe somebody will surprise us, because any success probably won't be a committee effort. You might as well send a $1,000 deposit on an Elio car! |
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| Author: | GregCon [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
They wouldn't need to offer a radical head redesign...and I'd expect to pay $1500 or a bit more. Edelbrock, or another quality maker, could leave the valve position alone and simply go to a little bigger valve as many others have already done to the stock head. They could increase the port size 10-15% and (maybe) reconfigure it a tad if their flow bench told them to. Maybe a smaller chamber to bump comp ratio. They could also go to a smaller stem valve and play a bit with spring height to allow a higher lift cam. Last - and this is a biggie - they would cast it out of aluminum which would save a few hundred pounds (lol). That formula is pretty much what they've done with a lot of other engines and it works great. |
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| Author: | jcc [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
Quote: They wouldn't need to offer a radical head redesign...and I'd expect to pay $1500 or a bit more.
Isn't that the attraction, in that the current design works as is, and is of course lacking, everybody gets that, a few tweeks, we have more HP, and losing that much weight, that high up, over the front axle, in our relatively light cars, would make a world of a handling improvement. Edelbrock, or another quality maker, could leave the valve position alone and simply go to a little bigger valve as many others have already done to the stock head. They could increase the port size 10-15% and (maybe) reconfigure it a tad if their flow bench told them to. Maybe a smaller chamber to bump comp ratio. They could also go to a smaller stem valve and play a bit with spring height to allow a higher lift cam. Last - and this is a biggie - they would cast it out of aluminum which would save a few hundred pounds (lol). That formula is pretty much what they've done with a lot of other engines and it works great. Price wise, anything over $3K would be dead in the water demand wise, can't see anything under $1500, in which I would take an least an extra one to sit on the shelf, Somewhere between the two should be workable. We are a cheap bunch. 
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
Quote: They wouldn't need to offer a radical head redesign...and I'd expect to pay $1500 or a bit more.
It is possible to do that with the iron head. Speaking for myself, I could skip lunch and save as much weight as an alloy head Edelbrock, or another quality maker, could leave the valve position alone and simply go to a little bigger valve as many others have already done to the stock head. They could increase the port size 10-15% and (maybe) reconfigure it a tad if their flow bench told them to. Maybe a smaller chamber to bump comp ratio. They could also go to a smaller stem valve and play a bit with spring height to allow a higher lift cam. Last - and this is a biggie - they would cast it out of aluminum which would save a few hundred pounds (lol). That formula is pretty much what they've done with a lot of other engines and it works great. 
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| Author: | GregCon [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
The allure, to me, of a modern aluminum head is that you get the lower weight but also the privelege of avoiding all the rework needed on an iron head. You get 100% new seats, guides, valves, springs, retainers, keepers, etc. with near-zero chance of sub-par workmanship. But also...I think a with a cast port you have a much better chance of getting a 'good' port. One guy(s) designs the port then they're all cast the same from then on. With an iron head, you're counting on the skill of whoever you hire to do the work. It's a crap shoot. He might be great or he might not. Oh well. I guess it's just a dream anyway... |
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| Author: | jcc [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
Quote: Quote: They wouldn't need to offer a radical head redesign...and I'd expect to pay $1500 or a bit more.
It is possible to do that with the iron head. Speaking for myself, I could skip lunch and save as much weight as an alloy head Edelbrock, or another quality maker, could leave the valve position alone and simply go to a little bigger valve as many others have already done to the stock head. They could increase the port size 10-15% and (maybe) reconfigure it a tad if their flow bench told them to. Maybe a smaller chamber to bump comp ratio. They could also go to a smaller stem valve and play a bit with spring height to allow a higher lift cam. Last - and this is a biggie - they would cast it out of aluminum which would save a few hundred pounds (lol). That formula is pretty much what they've done with a lot of other engines and it works great. 
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
In all honesty you need to figure out what you want and present a serious plan to Edelbrock, Pro Comp, 440 Source, etc. and see just what they can or will do. It won't be cheap, but at least you'd know where you stand. Just because it would be a brand new alloy head really doesn't mean squat. Early Eddy heads were notorious for guide and seat movement after being heat cycled a few times. I have a set that only have a few thousand miles on them and have been gone through twice already. Look at what the big and small block Mopar (and even Gen II Hemi) guys are going through getting blocks, heads, and good intakes done. It's ugly. |
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| Author: | GregCon [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
I don't have a need for more than one head so I'm not gonna rattle their cage too much. Some of the early Edelbrock heads did have issues...I had a friend with a 390 Ford who kept having rocker stud pull-out issues. But I think they got over their learning curve and are producing high quality stuff now. No one's perfect but I think they're the best bet for a trouble-free head...maybe not the best performance head once you get into the big leagues...but for a street/strip type car I think they're the best bet. |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
Start with a hunk of billet aluminum. Cut off everything that you don't need. Done. 
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: aluminum slant six head from 1959? |
Quote: I don't have a need for more than one head so I'm not gonna rattle their cage too much.
Many of the OEM iron Dodge Magnum heads crack, as is common with Chevy Vortec heads of the same era. Valve seat problems were common on the older 5.7 hemi. They did testing and yet problems occurred. If the slant six was associated with cool cars with a large following today, it might have happened. To the average car guy the slant six is like grandma's cast iron skillet that she used for decades - it isn't cool. Valiants and Darts aren't cool. Old sweptlines are starting to get some interest, maybe because Ram and Jeep are now cool. Some think flathead Ford 8s are cool, so maybe it just isn't time yet. I like this truck, would be cool without an alloy head.Some of the early Edelbrock heads did have issues...I had a friend with a 390 Ford who kept having rocker stud pull-out issues. But I think they got over their learning curve and are producing high quality stuff now. No one's perfect but I think they're the best bet for a trouble-free head...maybe not the best performance head once you get into the big leagues...but for a street/strip type car I think they're the best bet. https://waco.craigslist.org/cto/d/loren ... 17895.html |
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