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exhaust manifold heat riser
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12454		 Page 4 of 8
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:32 am ]
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It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that once you step out of the immediate path of a fan you no longer feel a breeze. Or that if youre walking down the street and a stiff wind is blowing, how it seems warmer when you pass along a building and the wind is blocked, or for that matter step inside a bus shelter. Wind deflection and convection of heat. What is the big mystery here? I doubt it has anything to do with the topic at hand anymore.
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:04 am ]
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...you're completely leaving out backpressure. Just which "side" are you on, anyway? :lol:

D/W
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:23 pm ]
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I never took out a flap on a stocker manifold. Just saying... I'm running headers with a piece of solid pipe that's connected to a piece of steel bolted on the former heat riser stove. For the record, I'm not a big fan of overheating the intake manifold, I think that the heat that unwraped headers produce would pretty much cover for the stock ex manifold heating effect (in normal climates, not going too low).
All driveability issues that I had were exclusively due to excessive intake heat.
and, 440 magnum, do you realize when do detroit started to use computers in engine design and evaluation? huh? 1959? i don't think so. Slants were HP underrated and they weren't as nearly as "squeezed" as a nascar or IRL engine or for that matter any present times engine. so if you're not even close to max engine capabilities, all mills are going to pass on any spec you want. By the way, I'm not dismissing theory, I'm just saying that going theoretical and then move back to a burrito fart for an example seems kinda desperate for being right. Not discussing how the heatriser works, wich is just the way you guys are saying.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:35 pm ]
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But, what do I know.
That sounds like a completely separate question for another time, to me.
Author:  440_Magnum [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:41 pm ]
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computers in engine design and evaluation? huh? 1959?
My point exactly. Understanding mostly-stock 60's engines is pencil-and-paper and well-known rule-of-thumb type work, not supercomputer work. Bill Weertman is a genius to have been able to design the thing in the slide-rule era, but it doesn't take a genius to keep his creations running right. Just common sense and good understanding of basic engine principles, combined with an ability to say "OK, so I was wrong, now I know better." Been there, done that.
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Slants were HP underrated and they weren't as nearly as "squeezed" as a nascar or IRL engine
That's exactly the point. If people can design an engine that's right on the edge of what is possible and still build 10 to the same design and have them all produce within 2 horsepower of each other, those of us who stick close to stock engines can CERTAINLY understand whether a given modification is going to help or hurt, and do so with hard, objective facts. Nebulous and irrelevant analogies which imply that 1400-degree, compressible exhaust gases behave in some way like room-temperature, incompressible liquid water don't cut the mustard.

In reading back up the thread, the burrito fart analogy ONLY came about to prove how ridiculous the water/exhaust gas comparison was in the first place.

I think the horse is dead, though.

Peace...
Author:  KenG [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:53 pm ]
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...you're completely leaving out backpressure. Just which "side" are you on, anyway? :lol:

D/W
Backpressure has not been talked about so far.

Pouring water in is not the same UNLESS you put in a restriction to slow down the way out. Then I garauntee the exhaust chamber and intake floor will pressurize and be equally coated with water.

Remember, the hot gasses are expanding equally. Filling up the muffler and all other nooks and crannies until they have to leave the exhaust pipe.

Eric, since you arent having probs, it seems to work OK for you. I won't be surprised to hear if you eventually start developing odd hard to chase down problems as ignition and carb stuff wears out though.

Since I use the /6 as a transportation device, I'm interested in tuning it to the letter of the FSM.

Welcome to the board 440!!!
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:04 pm ]
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My point exactly. Understanding mostly-stock 60's engines is pencil-and-paper and well-known rule-of-thumb type work, not supercomputer work. Bill Weertman is a genius to have been able to design the thing in the slide-rule era, but it doesn't take a genius to keep his creations running right. Just common sense and good understanding of basic engine principles, combined with an ability to say "OK, so I was wrong, now I know better." Been there, done that.
Oh yeah, the old "I screwed up" thing. Been there too. Like the time I reinstalled my radiator and compressed the ign wire on the volt regulator... nice thing that awared me the dumbásss of the year prize.
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... If people can design an engine that's right on the edge of what is possible and still build 10 to the same design and have them all produce within 2 horsepower of each other, those of us who stick close to stock engines can CERTAINLY understand ....
100% agree
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Nebulous and irrelevant analogies which imply that 1400-degree, compressible exhaust gases behave in some way like room-temperature, incompressible liquid water don't cut the mustard.
:mrgreen: you're right
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In reading back up the thread, the burrito fart analogy ONLY came about to prove how ridiculous the water/exhaust gas comparison was in the first place.
I know that. There's 2 kinda slanters here: the ones that don't care much for SSD and the ones whom frankly hates him. :) Now seriously, I carved in 'cuz I feel that SSD knows better than that kinda protozooich reaction. And while he's right, that ain't mean that everybody's wrong on everything else. C'mon, the guy just posted that points performs the same as MSD ignition or any other electronic ignition. I had a li'l fight with him for that... And give that we have maintained regular contact and I like him. Is just that sometimes we all get our nerves up and going...
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I think the horse is dead, though.
God bless the horse

Peace... love and mopar. :)
Author:  Eric W [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Once again...
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But, what do I know.
That sounds like a completely separate question for another time, to me.
Once again Dan knows everything. All hail Dan the Man. Gee, I wish I could be like you. Must make you feel real good to hide behind your keyboard, dispensing all your God given knowledge to us stupid people. Ever hear of real world? Things don't always work the same for others as they do for you.

Ken, in the 3 years I've run with out a flap valve, I have never had any problems. Of course some people won't believe it, but ask me if I care.

And Dan, don't ever quote me again.
Author:  KenG [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Once again...
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Quote:
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But, what do I know.
That sounds like a completely separate question for another time, to me.
Once again Dan knows everything. All hail Dan the Man. Gee, I wish I could be like you. Must make you feel real good to hide behind your keyboard, dispensing all your God given knowledge to us stupid people. Ever hear of real world? Things don't always work the same for others as they do for you.

Ken, in the 3 years I've run with out a flap valve, I have never had any problems. Of course some people won't believe it, but ask me if I care.

And Dan, don't ever quote me again.
Eric If you take my comments as an attack, that your problem not mine. They were directed at what your car may or may not do.
Obviously your up to the task of keeping your car happy, so have at it!!!
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Once again...
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Once again Dan knows everything.
Your words, not mine. I've never claimed to know everything. In fact, there are people a lot more knowledgeable than I am.
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Must make you feel real good to hide behind your keyboard
Hide? Who's hiding?
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dispensing all your God given knowledge
No need to be persnickety. I do like to help people who ask for help, when I can, so I do.
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Ever hear of real world? Things don't always work the same for others as they do for you.
Good point. Next time I'm downloading knowledge from God, I'll ask Him to devise a special set of laws of physics and mechanics, just for you. The rest of us can carry on using the ones that've worked well so far. ;-)
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in the 3 years I've run with out a flap valve, I have never had any problems.
Set your standards low enough, and you'll never have a bad day.
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ask me if I care.
You must, or you wouldn't have made this post.
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And Dan, don't ever quote me again.
Heh. Good one. :lol:
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:45 pm ]
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C'mon, the guy just posted that points performs the same as MSD ignition or any other electronic ignition.
Didn't. Go back and re-read what I actually posted in that thread.
Author:  Super6 [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:58 pm ]
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Sorry Dan, Kesteb is right.
Sorry, Super6, no he ain't. We're not discussing theoretical fluid dynamics in a straight, round pipe here.
Dan, my comment was directed at this statement by you, which I thought was rather apparent. I guess not:
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Gimme a break, Kesteb, you're way smarter than "gas and liquid flow by the same principles".
Kesteb IS right here, in that "the same principles that govern liquid flow govern gas flow. There are two forces that will make any fluid flow: pressure over an area(whether it be from a pressurized source, or something like a paddle wheel or impeller) and gravity.

BTW, I wasn't talking about a straight, round, smooth pipe either. The shape, direction, and smoothness of whatever the transfer medium is is quite irrelevent to the above statement. Yes, those parameters will have an affect on the flow characteristics of either fluid, and those affects will be different for any given fluid. But they do not change the fact that whether it is liquid or gas, one of the two above mentioned forces are responsible for the actual fluid flow. Getting down to the actual forces behind the fluids' motion sounds an aweful lot like a "principle". :roll:
Author:  Eric W [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Once again...
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And Dan, don't ever quote me again.
Heh. Good one. :lol:
Grow up.

I'm only telling people my experience with removing the flap valve, and none of it is negative. I'm sure with my automotive experience, my stock slant runs as well as any you've ever had. Burns you up, don't it? By the way, don't bother replying as I'm not going to view this thread anymore. I've gotten along great for many years without your advice.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:59 pm ]
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cripes, guys. Can't we have a discussion, without it turning into a flame fest. It is possible to disagree without being nasty.
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:07 pm ]
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There are two forces that will make any fluid flow: pressure over an area(whether it be from a pressurized source, or something like a paddle wheel or impeller) and gravity.
Gravity??? How do you figure. Hot air rises.
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