And by the time you're done doing all that stuff you can just throw it away and run an iron block spray painted silver. 3/4 of the free world can't tell the difference anyway.
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:35 pm ] |
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And by the time you're done doing all that stuff you can just throw it away and run an iron block spray painted silver. 3/4 of the free world can't tell the difference anyway.
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| Author: | sandy in BC [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:38 pm ] |
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LOL @ Dennis! Its all winter boolshyte anyways.... |
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| Author: | Joshie225 [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:50 pm ] |
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Quote: And by the time you're done doing all that stuff you can just throw it away and run an iron block spray painted silver. 3/4 of the free world can't tell the difference anyway.
True. The amount of work and expense involved would be ridiculous. I like slants, but if someone wants a DOHC 24V I6 you can go buy a used Toyota 2JZ-GE for less than $1000 and have yourself a very smooth 220 hp. Megasquirt would run it just fine. 
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| Author: | passing you [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:34 pm ] |
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Im liking the belzona 1121 epoxy idea. The other thing I'd like to ponder is the iron rings, filled lower portion of the block. I would think to just heat the rings and drop them on like a ring gear, and when the 2 are together and running,I would expect identical expansion rates with no problems and no 'pressing'. I would mill the the cyl down just a lil as to maybe have a small step in the top of the ring to sit flush on the cylinder to assure no downward slippage. You guys are doing a good job BTW on coming up with good ideas. thanks |
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| Author: | adiffrentcity [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:08 pm ] |
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Check doc's "Buster" thread, should be easy to find, for pictures of how to do just that. With a hole saw no less! Here you go... |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:30 pm ] |
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Quote: wvenable.... Anyways went to the Belzona site and according to their technical flyer, formulation 1121 does not heat up, shrink or expand on curing and is solvent free! Read all about it! But aluminum does............ So wouldn't the aluminum expand away from the epoxy once the engine warms up? |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:44 am ] |
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A few good ideas flying around here. Keep it up. I spoke w/ my machinist on the phone and he thought in principle my 0.125" deck plate idea would be doable, cost some $$, but not be outrageous. The Belzona almost certainly has its own thermal expansion coefficient. They just claim no shrink on curing. Hopefully they have specs on that and it would be reasonably close to Al and/or Fe. I may try that "top fill" too. Lou |
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| Author: | adiffrentcity [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:36 am ] |
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Quote:
The Belzona almost certainly has its own thermal expansion coefficient... Hopefully.... it would be reasonably close to Al and/or Fe.
This is what I was hoping, that if it would stay in contact with the block and cylinders during curing that the difference in expansion rates wouldn't be any worse than the iron cylinder liner against the al block and your new "top deck plate" would stay in place.'Course with a little creative block prep you could help it stay in place as well. |
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| Author: | Kevin Johnson [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:21 am ] |
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Quote: But aluminum does............ So wouldn't the aluminum expand away from the epoxy once the engine warms up? Belzona 1121: 68 ppm/degree C Aluminum (middling figure): 23.6 ppm/degree C Iron (pearlitic): 12.0 ppm/degree C |
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| Author: | Kevin Johnson [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:14 am ] |
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Quote: A few good ideas flying around here. Keep it up. I spoke w/ my machinist on the phone and he thought in principle my 0.125" deck plate idea would be doable, cost some $$, but not be outrageous.
Excellent. Rent the Isky o-ring grooving tool afterwards. Other people could do it more cheaply if you were willing to donate the cutting file for the plate and give a blueprint of the block dimensions. You would have to decide on a beginning point of reference. Hopefully the cylinder bores are very accurately aligned with respect to the head fasteners along the production life of the engine.Quote:
The Belzona almost certainly has its own thermal expansion coefficient. They just claim no shrink on curing. Hopefully they have specs on that and it would be reasonably close to Al and/or Fe. I may try that "top fill" too.
I would not use sand as a filler. It would release bits of it for years to come -- I know silicates are or were used to scour cooling passages. Perhaps some sort of softer plastic blasting media? Lou Always try a little experiment first in a cup. The concern is that the slower curing time of the resin and its surface tension would allow it to flow into many crevices between particles. When the cure is complete and the material poured out the surface might be quite jagged. I did pour epoxy resins into wax bordered molds -- works fine. The issue would be removing the wax. |
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| Author: | adiffrentcity [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:33 am ] |
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*Thanks mods!* |
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| Author: | passing you [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:48 pm ] |
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think about the strongest part of the block, and the upper shell expansion. I believe epoxy'ing the liners straight meanwhile the lower half being the strongest.....you see where I'm going? yeah stuff is gonna move around but say the ppm was close, I would think it would work in hand with the lower[strongest portion of the block] in keepin it in line. |
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| Author: | passing you [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:49 pm ] |
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btw I see no reason to lock anything? that sounds ridiculous.lol |
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| Author: | ceej [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:21 pm ] |
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The CTE numbers that Kevin showed you have a huge differential. 68 ppm or micro-inch/inch/°C is still pretty big when we consider what that actually means. We're talking about an expansion of nearly triple that of Aluminum at 24 ppm/°C. Lets say the total delta is 100° C, conservatively. We're talking about up to 4 milli-inches per inch of surface. Perhaps an 1/8" differential across the top of the block. While CTE isn't linear, nor should it be considered isotropic in many materials, it's likely close enough for our purposes. Most of the average CTE measurements were tested well within the operating temperature ranges of an engine block. Will it be enough to misalign something to the point of a boundary condition? Is it enough to induce cracks or exceed the sheer force the epoxy/aluminum interface can tolerate? Cracks and sealing surface deformation? Some form of engineered structure in the epoxy to allow for thermal expansion would be a darn good idea. Using a continuous deck made out of epoxy would not be a long term solution for an engine block. 2¢ CJ |
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| Author: | GTS225 [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:10 am ] |
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OK.....so how about an aluminum insert specifically made for the particular block? Dress the tops of the cylinders for a snug fit, and "glue" the outer perimeter of the deck plate to the block. You could even drill & tap around the top edge to hold it in place at the deck surface. I would think that expansion characteristics would be negligable(sp?) with that small amount of the epoxy in there. Roger |
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