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Author:  SixtySix_Fury [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:42 pm ]
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*shrug* I donno. The taxicab companies in Vancouver and Portland seem to like the Prius quite a lot, and they're catching on in Seattle and New York City, too.

Just to add on to this Dan, alot of Canadian Cities have made the switch to the Prius/ hybrid vehicles. For companies that are on the move alot like taxi, I can see how these vehicle could possiable save them money in the long run... somewhere.

But for the individual driver I don't see how you'd make your money back, unless your on the the road a retarded amount.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:47 am ]
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I think it is vital to understand that most people do not, unlike most of us, wish to drive, or have the time to rebuild and maintain an old car. They want new. So this is not about "is a Prius more cost effective than keeping and maintaining an old Dart?" Most people who can afford it will ask the question, "Is it more cost effective to buy a Prius, or a Camery?" The comparisons get more interesting, and more relevant with that question. The Prius will dirty up your city air by a considerable amount less, and will use less imported oil in the process. Will it cost more in the long run? We don't really know yet, as most of them are not yet old enough to replace the batteries, and no one is talking about that much.

For what it is worth, the railroad embraced hybrid technology 90 years ago, and has never looked back, (except for a few die hard romantics), and it considerably cleaner and more cost effective than the steam engines they replaced.

Sam
Author:  Reed [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:13 pm ]
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Diesel-electric is my powertrain of choice. Diesels can run on vegetable oil and other biomass-sourced oil and we can avoid the negative side effects of exotic metals for the fancy batteries and just use lead-acid or nickel-iron batteries.

If I had endless time and money, I would build a, aluminum tubular framed van with a fiberglass skin powered by an electric motor with a small diesel genset to charge the batteries and run on for long trips.
Author:  mcnoople [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:18 am ]
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Discussing side impacts and cars being driven over. Does the us government still have bumper height laws in effect? There is a huge difference in new cars bumper heights across the differents makes and model. I know they mandate that the front end has to blunted for pedestrian safety.

For the prius topic. There are now 4 distinct prius models in the prius family. The average life of the 12v battery in a prius seems to be about 2-3 years and they cost about $180. I hate to imagine the cost of the HV battery pack.

We had a big new ford diesel dump truck at work the other day. It had an emblem on the side that said "certified clean idle." It was running indoors and we didn't smell it. I was standing right next to the tailpipe with no diesel stink causing my eyes to water. I would put my money on clean diesel tech long before I would spend a dime on gas/electric hybrid tech.

One big reason for cities going to prius. It looks good to non thinkers in the media and they can justify it with the fuel savings.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:52 pm ]
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Does the us government still have bumper height laws in effect?
They never had bumper height laws in effect, as such. There were standards limiting the allowable damage to the body and certain components (lights, latches, fuel system, etc.) when the bumpers were hit straight-on and cornerwise at 5 mph by a basher at a certain height. These standards weren't (and aren't) considered safety standards, as such, though they're grouped and managed with the safety standards. Rather, they were intended to control vehicle ownership/repair costs to consumers. The original 1974 standards did a good job of that. The standards were weakened considerably during the Reagan administration, to the extent that consumers got/get screwed. In the UN system of auto regulations that started out in Europe and is now used by most of the world except the US/Canada, newer ideas in bumper design and regulation focus on reducing the severity of injury to pedestrians struck by cars. There are no pedestrian protection provisions in US regulations.

There's a pretty complete Wikipedia article on the subject
(with slant-6 content -- look closely! Image )
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The average life of the 12v battery in a prius seems to be about 2-3 years
According to...?
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One big reason for cities going to prius. It looks good to non thinkers in the media and they can justify it with the fuel savings.
Image
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:16 pm ]
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Does the us government still have bumper height laws in effect?
There are no pedestrian protection provisions in US regulations.

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True enough. However, it is my understanding that the Corvette's pop up headlights were eliminated in 1997 to make the cars marketable in Europe. So European regs had an effect non-the-less. They disappeared from the Miata in '98 as well. I do not know if Japan is concerned about this or not. If not, then they too were thinking European with their design.

Sam

Image[/quote]
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:37 pm ]
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it is my understanding that the Corvette's pop up headlights were eliminated in 1997 to make the cars marketable in Europe.
Pop-up headlamps are not prohibited by European/international regulations. They're costly to build and aerodynamically lousy when popped up, which is why they are decreasingly popular.
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European regs had an effect non-the-less
True -- now that Europe mandated daytime running lights on all new cars starting Feb '11, with a regulation that is a good bit more stringent than the Canadian/US reg (American regs allow high glare and you can use high beams, low beams, turn signals, etc. as the DRLs; European regs don't allow headlamps or turn signals or fog lamps as DRLs and don't allow glaring intensity levels) we're seeing more European-type DRLs in North America.
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I do not know if Japan is concerned about this or not.
Japan has been gradually replacing their own auto regs with the UN "European" regs for the last dozen years or so.
Author:  slantzilla [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:52 pm ]
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For the prius topic. There are now 4 distinct prius models in the prius family. The average life of the 12v battery in a prius seems to be about 2-3 years and they cost about $180. I hate to imagine the cost of the HV battery pack.
That was the experience of my folk's neighbors who have a Prius.
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We had a big new ford diesel dump truck at work the other day. It had an emblem on the side that said "certified clean idle." It was running indoors and we didn't smell it. I was standing right next to the tailpipe with no diesel stink causing my eyes to water. I would put my money on clean diesel tech long before I would spend a dime on gas/electric hybrid tech.
The truck probably has the cat/burner under it. It burns the exhaust up before it goes out the pipe. It was a disaster the first couple years they started using it, but seems to work pretty well now.

Cousin's '07 Mack had a system on it that had to be cycled every so many hours. The inside of the pipe was always clean.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:56 pm ]
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The truck probably has the cat/burner under it. It burns the exhaust up before it goes out the pipe. It was a disaster the first couple years they started using it, but seems to work pretty well now. Cousin's '07 Mack had a system on it that had to be cycled every so many hours. The inside of the pipe was always clean.
See Diesel particulate filter and Diesel exhaust fluid
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:40 pm ]
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Reed semi trucks are subject to federal inspections once a year. Even if it isn't up for inspection the DOT can pull you in and slide under with a creeper. Wheels falling off? sounds like the "Dayton" wheels on container trailers. They don't check them very often. Wheels held in place with cleats.

I remember 1972 in NE Ohio. You seldom saw the sun due to factories (Akron) and cars.

Those new diesels smell like lighter fluid on the highway to me.

I want to build a HHO system someday to clean up my dually's exhaust. Drop it on a "sniffer" before and after.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:05 pm ]
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I remember 1972 in NE Ohio. You seldom saw the sun due to factories (Akron) and cars.
Gee...y'mean back in the "good" ol' days? :roll:
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Those new diesels smell like lighter fluid on the highway to me.
They have a distinct bleach-like smell to me.
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I want to build a HHO system someday to clean up my dually's exhaust.
How do you reckon that would work?
Author:  Reed [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:15 pm ]
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Reed semi trucks are subject to federal inspections once a year. Even if it isn't up for inspection the DOT can pull you in and slide under with a creeper. Wheels falling off? sounds like the "Dayton" wheels on container trailers. They don't check them very often. Wheels held in place with cleats.
Semi trucks may be subject to inspection by the Feds once a year, but not the local regular cars and trucks. I'll say it again- there are NO safety inspections required to reregister your car in Washington. If the vehicle has been reported totaled or is transferred in from another State, then there is a rather useless "safety inspection" done by the State patrol. I had to go through one once when re-registering a car that had been stolen and declared totaled. The State Patrol checked for working headlights, a working horn, working windshield wipers, and working brake and turn signals. That was it. The car could have been about to rust in half and I would still have passed the inspection.

I had a harder time convincing the trooper that I didn't get a receipt for the steering column I bought out of a junkyard. It was out of a Chevy Celebrity but the car being registered was an Olds Cutlass. The Trooper didn't like the fact that there was a Chevy logo on the steering wheel but Olds emblems everywhere else.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:22 pm ]
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The Trooper didn't like the fact that there was a Chevy logo on the steering wheel but Olds emblems everywhere else.
Glad to read that the taxpaid trooper was eagle-eyeing those items that could endanger roadway safety. :roll:
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:26 pm ]
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The HHO will help get a more complete burn Dan. I like B20 but it is a PITA to find, I lose 3-4 mpg, usually costs more. The only benefit is a better smell.

More complete burn=more mpg. Do we need to argue about that again?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:33 pm ]
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The HHO will help get a more complete burn
I do not believe that is correct. There's a lot of mythology and popular handwaving about HHO systems, but it seems like every properly rigorous/scientific test I've seen shows zero benefit.
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