I also vote that you change the oil. When oil sits in an engine for extended periods of time, the oil actually separates. The additives, parrafins, and other chemicals that make motor oil a good lubricant and cleaning agent actually separate out from the base oil,

See this video for an extreme example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhVo7-gzJo4

The principle is the same for your engine. No matter what filtration system you use, motor oil does not have an indefinite shelf life, or sump life as the case may be. You engine didn't sit for 50 years and you have driven it periodically, but it is still old oil.

Unfortunately, my recommendation is that you completely drain the oil, drop the oil pan, and refill the sump with new oil. Besides the fact that your old oil has almost certainly chemically broken down, new oil have much better formulations than did the oils in the 80s. 30 years of development and advancement have occurred. Take advantage of it!

Hi JC,don't worry, I will still talk to you!! Even if you use a toilet paper oil filter,want to put on a new oil pump when you don't need one,like a certain colour car,vote a certain way.....whatever ... It's a free world at the end of the day,your not hurting anyone else.
I've heard of these oil filters,have never seen one,but we had them out here years ago as well. Having an efficient oil filter is obviously a necessity,here is an example,some old aircraft engines actually had nothing more than a brass mesh screen as a filter,these engines typically had oil that was filthy after a relatively short period,and the engines showed signs of contamination on the bearings when we rebuilt them. The same engines converted to a full flow oil filter system showed vastly improved condition when stripped, the engines were cleaner and bearings were in great condition,so yes,I'm all for a good filter. BUT,if the toilet paper roll filter is so good,how come your oil still gets dirty? Shouldn't the paper soak up all the acids,contaminants and stay perfectly clean?
I'm not familiar with the plumbing of the filter,but you mention it's a by pass arrangement? So it doesn't filter ALL the oil ALL the time....it filters ALL the oil eventually after several cycles thru the oil system......so if there was a tiny chunk of whatever in the oil it may go thru the franz filter,or it may go thru the conventional system and go to the engine.....maybe it will get picked up next time round by the franz? It's a good thing your full flow spin on filter is there doing it's job ALL the time and removes anything that will cause damage to your engine,until it clogs and by passes of course.... JC ,if you like these filters go for it,at the end of the day it's your engine,and it seems that whatever the system does or doesn't do,it hasn't caused you any problems directly,but leaving oil in the engine for an indefinite period is a different story,change the oil at regular intervals,its cheap insurance,its great peace of mind even!
Spinning the old pump tells you very little,it makes a funky noise that may entertain you,but that's about it. Pull the cover off,look at the rotors and see what has been feeding your engine,its 1 minutes work.
I hope your having a win with your work on Lorrie, cheers!!

Hey Mr. OSR,
I hope that you are right.
What in the world would cause it to do THAT?
YOW! Have never heard of that happening.


Well, THAT doesn't sound "unlucky" to me. Some posts back there was a warning about using a high volume Oil Pump. Said it would stress the gears on the Cam. The way I drive, having a high volume Oil Pump would be unnecessary anyway.
Still, I worry about Lorrie. I don't want anything that can't be remedied to happen to her.
Thanks for the reassurance.
Have used Valvoline in both Lorrie and Ms. American ever since they came to live with me.
With the FOCS, when changing the Filter Element, one has to top off the Oil. It takes about a pint. That adds some of the detergent back into the Oil. As was mentioned previously, there is some contention and controversy involved with systems such as the FOCS. I can tell you that Ms. American has had her FOCS since 1964. She is less than 2,000 miles away from having 300,000 miles on her and she puts up 80 PSI at start up which goes down to 65 PSI as soon as she is off the Choke. She has never had any lubrication problems.
"Sock style filter"? Actually, the FOCS was MEANT to use bathroom tissue. It's not something that I decided to substitute.
Frantz now sells specially manufactured Filter Elements, but originally the FOCS was designed to use bathroom tissue.
Have never in 50 years with Ms. American and 39 years with Lorrie ever had any of the Filter Elements get soggy, clogged, broken down, nor have they ever contaminated the oil returned to the Engine. BTW, I burn the Filter Elements that are taken out when they are replaced in the Wood Burning Stove to heat the house in the winter. They burn for quite a while.
Alright.
That's pretty much what has happened with Ms. American. And it was the way Lorrie was until she sat for sixteen years because I was experiencing some serious health problems. It was a terrible thing that I did to her letting her sit that way, but I had no choice in the matter. Promised her that I would get her up and running again. Kept that promise. It took four years to completely rebuild her. The problem that we're having right now is not because of the FOCS. It's because of my unavoidable neglect of her between 1996 and 2008 which was when I started working to get her back up and running which was finished in October of 2012.

Things have gone pretty well today. Got the NEW Gasket cut for the NEW Oil Pump. Have cleaned all the Fittings and have assembled them on the NEW Oil Pump.

Called the NAPA Auto Parts and ordered a NEW Oil Pan Gasket Set. It is coming from New Orleans. The guy at NAPA said It will be in next Wednesday. So between now and then will be pulling the Oil Pan and seeing what is going on there.

Am going to be installing the NEW Oil Pump between now and when the Gasket Set gets here.

Will be reinstalling the FOCS after it passed all the diagnostics to see if it was alright.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful response and the reassurance. Am hoping that Lorrie will once again be happily reliable when this is all finished. She is such a wonderful, big, gentle old thing.

Hope this finds YOU doing well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. AT,
As was mentioned to Mr. Oldschoolracer, Ms. American 3.14159 has had a FOCS for 50 years and Lorrie has had hers for 39 years and neither one of them have had the kind of problems that you uncle had. One of the things that Frantz says that their FOCS does is remove the moisture from the oil to keep it from turning into hydrochloric acid in the Engine.
Frantz also makes a FOCS for big rigs. The canister holds six rolls of bathroom tissue.
A few posts back it was recommended to use ATF to do a flush. What do you think of THAT idea? Maybe three quarts of ATF and three quarts of Wal*Mart oil? Run it at a fast idle for fifteen minutes and then drain it. Refill with NEW Valvoline 10W30 and a NEW Filter Element.
This is a Slant Six?
Will just have to wait and see. Will let you know what is found.
Am able to prime the NEW Oil Pump through the Hydraulic Hose that sends Oil FRP< the NEW Oil Pump TO the the Frantz Oil Cleaner. How much Oil does it take to prime a NEW Oil Pump?
Right.
Me too.

Am going to be doing all this between now and next Wednesday when the NEW Oil Pan Gasket Set will be here.

Will keep you posted.

Hope YOU are well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Reed,
The Oil was changed right after it was noticed that the Oil Pressure had dropped. Put in five quarts of Valvoline 10W30, eight ounces of Seafoam and a pint of Marvel Mystery Oil to see if that might clean out any blockage in the Oil lines. It didn't do anything to raise the Oil Pressure. Have drained that out in preparation for dropping the Oil Pan.
Alas, my computer won't do youtube. But remember back a year or so ago when Lorrie had sticking Valves from the sediment in the Gas Tank? Had to get the Valves unstuck. Had to take the Gas Tank out and clean it. Should have done that before starting Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine.

Well, I should have drained her Oil before running her Engine too. It just never occurred to me to do it like it never occurred to me to clean out her Gas Tank. It's one of those live and learn things.
That's what is planned. Am going to be getting the NEW Oil Pan Gasket Set by next Wednesday.
Will be putting in NEW Valvoline 10W30 as soon as everything is back together.

Not much else to report. Have already mentioned everything that has been done today in previous posts.

Hope this finds YOU doing well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Yes, a stock 225 SL6 with a 1920 Holley Economaster.

Valvoline may get dirty quicker because of the detergents. That means they are doing their job!
In your motor, maybe one quart only...better yet a quart of Rislone instead. Rislone is gentler.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Hey Mr. SS,
You tolerance warms the cockles of my heart! If there's anything I hate it's cold cockles!
That's just it! The Oil DOESN'T get dirty. Ms. American's Oil looks just like it came out of the bottle. The reason that Lorrie's Oil got messed up was because she sat for sixteen years and the Oil apparently separated.
Yes. And it does that when operating normally. I should have drained Lorrie's Oil and cleaned out her Oil Pan before getting her back up and running. It never occurred to me to do that. So am having to do it now.
Yes.
Neither does a regular filter.
Yes.
If it gets into the Frantz Circuit it will NOT get through the Filter Element. No solid particulate can make it through a roll of bathroom tissue.
Yes.
Yes.
Lorrie doesn't have a "full flow spin on filter". There's no other filter on Lorrie's Engine other than the FOCS. AND, the normal spin-on filter that would be on Lorrie's Oil Pump if the FOCS system was there isn't a "full flow" filter either.
Alright.
Will be cleaning it up soon and will do that, though I don't know exactly what to look for.
Everything is going along without a hitch so far. The main problem that we have at the moment is that the NEW Oil Pan Gasket Set is having to be shipped in from New Oleans. That's an eight hour drive from here. It's going to take till next Wednesday for it to get here! That's just one of the negatives that comes from living out in the boondocks of deep East Texas.
Thanks for the response.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Good luck! I hope it all works out for you.

The video was posted by a guy who bought a 31 Ford that had sat for 50 years and he was showing what the "oil" in the sump looked like. It had separated into a jelly like dark goo and an even thicker yellow/gray colored sludge.

Since your in this far you may as well pull the valve cover and clean it up and check to see lubrication is making it up there,cam bearings can turn and block oil flow to the top end.

Hey Reed,
Thanks for the best wishes. Am losing sleep over this situation.
Now that I think about it, it is only logical. But at the time that I was doing all the work on Lorrie, the condition of the Oil in her Oil Pan was just considered as "Oil". What was showing on her Dip Stick was nice and clean. As previously mentioned, it just never occurred to me that the stuff would have deteriorated to produce the present situation.

Also, living out here in boondocks and working on an OLD vehicle is like pulling teeth. Like swimming in molasses. Getting parts entails driving to the nearest town after having had to order them and then having to wait for a week for them to get here. It's even like that when getting stuff from the Internet.

There are only three auto parts stores (NAPA, O'Reilly's and AutoZone) all three thirteen to fifteen miles away. Only the guys at NAPA have any idea about what is "automotive". The other two parts stores have people whose qualifications to work at an auto parts store is that they know how to run their franchise's computer. They aren't "car" people. They are "computer" people. And the problem with that is that their computers don't list anything earlier than 1970.

And when one tries to explain how to find a "work-around" a certain situation, their countenance glazes over indicating incomprehension. And dealing with them over the phone is nigh on to impossible.

I sometimes wonder why I'm even trying to do this, but the answer to that is that I have no choice in the matter. Lorrie and Ms. American are what I have. They are also part of me. What is going on with them isn't their fault. It's mostly my own doing, and I didn't do what was done on purpose. It just happened due to circumstances beyond my control. Coping with it is the price that is having to be paid to maintain a minimum amount of mobility.

Am hoping that pulling the Oil Pan, cleaning it out, Flushing the Engine with a 50/50 mix of 10W30 and ATF and running it for fifteen minutes and then draining it will clean out Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine. Then with the addition of six quarts of NEW Valvoline 10W30, hopefully Lorrie's lubrication and Oil Pressure problems will be solved.

Still at this point, am still having trepidations about the whole thing. It's like eating a piece of mule meat! The more one chews the bigger it gets.

Anyway, by way of analogy, I have the solution to all this: Permit this digression. When I turn on The Scorcher (that's the fifteen year old computer's name), it take a bit to boot and load the programs. During the boot procedure, I play Freecell. I have a tablet on which I keep track of the games. There are a million different "spreads" of the cards. I am playing each game in order and I play each game till I win it. Some games are winnable easily. Some are a bit harder, but still winnable. Some take quite a bit of skill (I'm able to win the first time 74% of the time). And some are REALLY hard to win. And then there are the ones that are nearly impossible. Those are the games that I play over and over till I finally win one. Have yet to find one that I can't beat, but it may take fifteen tries to do it.

And the lesson of that is that one has to just keep plugging away at it till one succeeds.

That seems to be the situation with everything. It's a matter of just keeping on keeping on, doing each step even if it doesn't result in a success. If at first one doesn't succeed, then one must try again.

That seems to be what is going on with Lorrie. It's taking a lot of time, a lot of effort, and the success rated seems to be about 75%.

Have become skilled enough that I'm not messing anything up in the process of doing each and every step. But that doesn't mean that there aren't setbacks that take dropping back and reevaluating what is being done.

Fortunately there are people like yourself who are willing to give some guidance and advice, but no one knows EVERYTHING.

And along the way there are all the personal nicks and scrapes that happen. It seems that Lorrie just delights in punishing me for having let her sit for so long. She breaks my fingernails, she skins my knuckles, she has sharp places which poke little holes in my head when I try to get into a position to look at somewhere. And when that happens instead of reacting destructively, one has to just seethe for a bit until the chagrin subsides.

One thing that is happening that is that while is Lorrie is growing older, so do I. My eyesight isn't what it used to be. My mobility isn't what it used to be. My endurance isn't what it used to be. My health isn't what it used to be. And Lorrie is not the only thing around here that needs attention. At some point I fear that I'm not going to be able to continue doing this kind of thing. But till that time comes, there is no alternative to continuing to hang in here.

Then there is, always has been, and always will be (unless I win the Lotto, which isn't likely since I don't play the Lotto anymore) the financial limitations that we all have to deal with. It would be WONDERFUL to be able to to just tell one of the auto shops to come get Lorrie and FIX her. But THAT isn't what this is all about in the first place. I do enjoy working on her. I do enjoy the feeling of having done something difficult and finally succeeding. But sometimes I just get tired, but can't back off because I need the mobility that Lorrie and Ms. American afford.

So here it is early Sunday morning. I awakened late Saturday night an couldn't go back to sleep because of thinking of what all has to be done on Lorrie. Am at the point where I'm going to be going out as soon as it is not too cold for me to be lying on my back on the concrete under Lorrie's Oil Pan. Am going to be removing the Bolts that hold it in place and prying it loose from the Crank Case.

It needs doing. It isn't going to get done unless I do it. Am hoping that it is the right thing to do. Hope that all the parts that are necessary to reassemble her arrive on schedule. And most of all, I hope that this solves Lorrie's problems. It's the price one pays the games one plays.

Will just have to wait and see.
What will be will be.
Time will tell.
Be well.
JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

hang in there! I think you will be fine once it is all buttoned back up.

If I were closer I would head over and lend a hand. Anybody in Texas have a free day tomorrow?

Hey Reed,
Have to. Don't have any choice in the matter.
Am going to have to wait till Thursday to button it back up because the FelPro Oil Pan Gasket Set won't be here till Wednesday evening.
The offer is much appreciated. Alas, what needs doing is mostly a one person task.
Don't know of anyone here that is close by. Still, all that needs doing is to drop the Oil Pan and do whatever is necessary to it (clean, probably repaint), clean the Oil Pump Pick Up Tube. Can also install the NEW Oil Pump. It is all set to go on.

What should I know about the Oil Pump Pick Up Tube? How is it fastened to the Engine? I don't remember any of that though I put it in when I rebuilt Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine back in 1985.

Have had two NEW Hydraulic Hoses made to connect the FOCS to the Engine. Am going to have to have them shortened though. Will have my neighbor Robert's wife, Rita take them to NAPA on Monday on her way to work, and pick them up on her way home from work. They are Really spiffy. Them, along with three quarts of 10W30 Valvoline cost $103.00!

Will have Rita pick up another three quarts of 10W30 Valvoline. Already have the Oil and ATF for doing the flush.

Anyway, am going to go back to bed. Will be up pat 5:00 a.m. to feed the congress of cats here.

BTW, what are YOU doing up at this hour?

Hope YOU are well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. SS,
Good suggestion. Might should do that after Lorrie is back up and running at the end of this coming week. Would give me a chance to check the Valve Adjustment.
Oh, I hope that hasn't happened.

Will do all this before the Engine Cabinetry is reinstalled.

Anyway, I'm going to see if I can go back to sleep.

Hang in there.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Amazing isn't it...we just returned from heading out for a glass of wine and a pizza at our local Italian,its 8.30 pm ....it's a very mild Sunday evening,around 75 degrees,probably got up to about 80 today,your over in the USA and its 1.15 am....GO TO BED!! Tomorrow is another day,enjoy working on Lorrie,Ihope its a reasonably mild day for you. I have just returned from spending the week in Melbourne in a heat wave,every day saw over 40 Celsius ,that's well over 100 f, bush fires were threatening many houses,its an amazing world and Mother Nature will always do as she wishes,anyways,have a good rest and get in there tomorrow.

Hey Mr. SS,
"Amazing?" "It"? What's amazing is that here you are, a guy from "down under", and it's like you're just across the street. I mean, here you are, half a world away, and are, by dint of the Internet virtually involved in the process of trying to straighten out what is wrong with one of these "leaning towers of power" here in the world's largest Pine Tree Forest in "deep" East Texas, USA. That has never happened before in the history of the world! We indeed live in "amazing" times.
I was asleep by 6:30 p.m. last night. Slept till 11:00 and then awakened. Couldn't go back to sleep. Got up. But I DID go back to bed at a little after 2:00 a.m. and slept soundly till a little after 5:00 a.m. when I got up, fixed coffee, fed the cats (there are eight of them), took my medications, and here I am again.
Well, here it is, "Sunday morning comin' down" (Johnny Cash). By the end of this day, Lorrie's Oil Pan will hopefully be sitting on the bench. AND, as a matter of fact, I do enjoy working on Lorrie, though this time it isn't being done leisurely. When she was being rebuilt between 2008 and 1012, it was an every day, all day, very leisurely process. But then again, I had another vehicle for transport. Back then, the OTHER vehicle (Ms. American 3.14159, the ONLY 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, Four-Door, Hard-Top, Fast-Back, Police Interceptor that Google finds on the whole World Wide Web) was up and running. Right now SHE is sitting up on Jack Stands in a Lorrie-esque semi-coma, needing her front suspension rebuilt. She's not safe to drive. But I go out and start her up twice a month, run her through the gears, keeping her from having the same thing happen to her that happened to Lorrie. So this time with Lorrie is a MUST DO thing. And though one of my neighbor's lets me borrow his Pick-Up Truck to run errands, Lorrie NEEDS to be up and running, if for no other reason than to ease MY trepidations.
Weather here today is sunny, clear, and will be in the high 60s, low 70s F. It's in the high 30s F till about 9:00 a.m.though. So the work day starts at 9:00 a.m.
Noticed that in the news here. Caused the postponement of the Australian Open Tennis Tournament.
That's happening in Southern California too.
No matter WHAT we think. Don't know exactly what to make of all the indication of "climate change". Some say it's just happening. Some say that the humans are causing it with all the use of hydrocarbons in cars, factories, power generating plants and etc. Some say it is all a big hoax. The statistics seem to indicate that "something" is going on, but the people who "should" be in charge of dealing with it can't come to any agreement of what should be done about it, if anything. Some are warning that it's going to adversely affect everyone in the coming decades. But it isn't going to affect me in the coming decades because I'm not going to be here in the coming decades.
Am all set to pull Lorrie's Oil Pan as soon as it isn't too cold for me to be lying under Lorrie's Front End on the Pavement.

Will keep you updated on developments and contingencies.

You're probably sleeping by now. Have a good night.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor