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| 65 Valiant 170 hard to start, cuts off full throttle https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56553 |
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| Author: | wh23g3g [ Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:13 pm ] |
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Oh well maybe the spring doesn't matter. But it seems like it would if the float drops too low. It hits the bottom of the bowl with no spring in there. The bowl is slotted for the baffle. I see that place I got the choke from has the springs, Mike's carbs. But I don't know where I'll find a baffle, the core I turned in had one in it that I had to score from a junk core and now I don't have one at all. |
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| Author: | nm9stheham [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:09 am ] |
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Not too hard to cut one out of sheet ..... perhaps treat it so it does not corrode. (alodine?) Not sure how to attach photos here, but I have a photo of one installed. |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:37 am ] |
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Quote: Oh well maybe the spring doesn't matter. But it seems like it would if the float drops too low. It hits the bottom of the bowl with no spring in there. The bowl is slotted for the baffle. I see that place I got the choke from has the springs, Mike's carbs...
Well, I guess if Holley included the spring in the later models was for a reason... and after seeing that the reman shop did not install a baffle or an spring when they remanufactured it, I can bet the float is old/bad too (With time they become spongy, absorbs gas and get heavy). Having a float w/o spring and baffle is the perfect recipe for having strong oscillations in the bowl when the car is moving, wich can explain flooding when breaking, accelerating hard.Buy a float and spring from Mike's, and try to make a baffle (I tried once with an aluminum piece, but I had a reference baffle to work with). The baffle needs to have a tab for keeping the spring in place. I bought float and spring from Mike's, and helped my previous carb for a while, before I got the NOS. The NOS had baffle, float (the ligther float) and spring, and no paint covering/blocking holes. |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:43 am ] |
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If you want to know a little more about different floats, and which parts # to order, here's an older thread... http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0 |
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| Author: | wh23g3g [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:25 am ] |
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So how long did they use that baffle and float spring? Maybe I can find a later 1920 in the junkyard. I'm interested to see what United carb will say about the float spring. |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:22 pm ] |
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I do not know for sure. My educated guess is: -Baffle: I don't think they took the baffle out in later designs. Dodge used the 1920 carb up to 1974, so that date will be fine - Float and spring: there are 2 combinations: older (heavier float and stiffer spring) and newer (lighter float and softer spring). Not sure if I remember they overlap in 1970. The 1920 carb was used in dodge/chrysler. Try them (sorry posted some links before in this particular post, wrong numbers, I erased the links) |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:29 pm ] |
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And American Motors (some Jeeps) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Holley-1920-Car ... 8f&vxp=mtr Also, a Carb Shop, or some members here might have spare baffles. Check with Agressive Ted, he knows of a Carb shop that migth help you (if it is still open) |
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| Author: | wh23g3g [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:46 pm ] |
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I know of one spot that has a 66 complete Valiant front to back that he parts out and I know it has a Holley on it. I'll call him and ask how much. I see Mike's carbs has the float spring if I can't come up with anyone. I called the guy at United Carb and he said the float spring and baffle may not be totally necessary to work correct. But in the 65 Plymouth service manual it shows the spring installed to measure the correct float level. So I guess it should be there. If I take off the bowl on the Holley I've actually got on the motor and notice the spring and baffle missing. I might just take it off and put a kit on when I install the float spring and hopefully find a baffle. |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:48 am ] |
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Sure, who told him the one he sold you was one of those?. I can think many answers to his statement that can channel the frustration I feel for seeing how they sell garbage and you have no way to send it back because you need to open it to see it is incomplete and thus voiding the warranty. I guess it would be better going to a big store nearby you with an screwdriver and telling them you will buy it if you open it in front of them and it is complete, or just buy in a small carb shop were you can talk with the one who rebuilt it, not to a salesman. By the way, I dont know the details of the accelerator linkage you have but the firat link I sent you for an old reman carb looks good. There is something else on this... Whoever is going to buy a carb and send a core back, probably is going to send a crappy one. The reman company wont take the loss, they will install a kit and put it back on the market... So more chances to get stucked with a bad one... Good idea buying a spring and a carb kit, but buy both the spring and the float. In that way you are sure they match each other, and you dont have a bad float. Also, good luck with the baffle |
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| Author: | wh23g3g [ Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:07 am ] |
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So I swapped out this carb for another warranty carb. So I checked the bowl it has the float spring but no baffle. I've yet to check the newer one currently on the motor. I found plenty slant six cars at the salvage yard but everyone was missing the carb. I'm going to install an inline fuel gauge so I can check the pressure. How important is it to check timing in neutral? |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:35 am ] |
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I'm just wondering about the missing baffles.... or they corrode with time and get trashed by rebuilders, or the rebuilders do not care... not good there were no carbs left in thed slants. About neutral.. it should work in P too. I have a manual transmission, so in my case is neutral. |
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| Author: | wh23g3g [ Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:27 am ] |
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So yesterday I installed an inline fuel gauge right after the filter. It read constant 5-6psi. Slowly returned to 0 after shutting off the engine. Tweaked the mixture again after warming it up but there is only a small window of turning the screw in or out until it runs rough. So I guess mixture is fine. Still hesitated and stumbled when in drive. So I decided to play with the timing which was at 2.5 degrees according to 65 specs. Well I disconnected the hose and advanced the timing up around 10.5 degrees. And wow what a difference it made. Full throttle from a stop, no hesitation, spun the tires, and did't cut off or idle down low when let off accelerator. Only one spot it hesitates when backing up but doesn't pop or cut off then you can full throttle in reverse. So what does that mean? It has 17 inches of vacuum at 600rpm in idle. So why does advancing timing so far from specs make it feel like a different car? |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:59 pm ] |
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Good fuel pressure, vacuum within specs. Good. 10.5 advanced idling with no carb vacuum, good behavior. Wow. Advanced is controlled by vacuum and RPM. Engine should be lazier with no vacuum advance. One thing I can think of: some have reported in this forum that the harmonic balancer can get loose and the timing mark can move with time. Maybe your time mark moved, and you had too much advance before. How to check?. I had no luck with a TDC spark plug tool because the one I bought was too shallow and the sparks plugs are inclined to the top of the cilinder (so it can bend the screw). I hope somebody elses can suggest an easy way to check if the advance mark moved. |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:50 pm ] |
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OR you have the wrong distributor/wrong distributor vacuum puller. |
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| Author: | wh23g3g [ Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:06 pm ] |
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I got the distributor maybe two years ago remanufactured for a 65 Valiant 170 with single points. It's true the balancer could be out. But I don't know where to get a new one. I know they are available for 65 Valiant 225 but nothing listed for a 170. Eventhough the 65 Chrysler parts manual lists the 170 and 225 balancer as being the same part number. I don't know if the aftermarket listed for the 225 would work. Is there anywhere that recores them? Those aftermarket ones are too expensive like $150-$200. If it's running good the way it is, I'll just leave it like that. It still has a pretty noticeable exhaust leak at the manifold to exhaust pipe flange. I still need to do a double gasket there. If I could get that sealed up it would probably smooth out. Also I keep forgetting to install the little heat riser spring that are always missing. I don't know if that will do anything. But the other day when I messed with the timing it was running great then but it had been warming up for about 20-30 mins so hopefully it will still run good right away and not just after running for a long time. I've got to change the lower radiator hose because it's too long rubber on the inner stub frame and the back of the belt and fix that exhaust leak. Do a thourough recheck of all the new brakes and then tag and get this on the road up to more higher speed. |
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