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First fire successfull....but some issues
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60390		 Page 4 of 6
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1/2 right...LOL
Quote:
Quote:
Err…no, I'm pretty sure there are differences between the RV10RDP and the Mopar Performance P2140243 cam.
It looks like it uses the Erson RV10 mechanical lobe and the MP exhaust lobe...
I hate to argue (…oh, wait a sec, that's not true…) but please take a look at the spec sheet for this cam. The "RDP" at the end of the designator means "reverse dual pattern", that is, bigger exhaust lobe than intake lobe.

Specs on this sheet call for 0.010" lash for intake and for exhaust.

Are we all on the same page (looking at the same cam)?
Author:  SlantSteve [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you run that thing as advertised at .010" lash it's a 311/353 theoretical duration using the .006" lifter lift numbers multiplied by rocker ratio,allow flex and say its 291/317 using the .010" lifter rise figures,considering its on a 108 lobe sep it's gonna give you huuuuge overlap and a hairy idle. Like Duster says,use .020" lash as a start in order to give you a conservative overlap an move down, if able from there. Lash will be critical to how this engine runs with those slow ramps. It's a really lazy cam,the .200" figures are extremely small for such a long advertised duration. People think the job of a good cam is to open the valves,really it's to keep the valves closed for as long as possible while still supplying the required charge of air/fuel for the engines intended use.
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Thanks to Dadtruck..
...for the post on where the leak was coming from...awesome info.

Brian
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Dadtruck
...though my '66 block doesn't have those holes...likely why I didn't understand the leak description.

b
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Lol...
Quote:
"reverse dual pattern", that is, bigger exhaust lobe than intake lobe.
OK last shot, LOL... RDP is more intake than exhaust... normal dual pattern follows the V-8 philosophy that more exhaust duration/etc helps with extraction and scavenging with headers...), the slant has a somewhat lazy intake event but is fine on exhaust so we use the RDP on the cam to help an NA engine breathe a little better...

Now that being said... looking at the sheet the lobes look reversed or 'normal DP'... the intake lobe looks like the Erson RV10 lobe (and the Erson archived catalog has an anomaly... the slant six RV10 cam grind shows a .022 lash...but the lobe data in the back of the catalog shows a lash of .015).... the exhaust lobe is nicer than the Comp 264 mech lobe.. looks almost like an Engle or Isky lobe....

I don't think this will cause an issue with his build since it's a mild cam... but the 214 @.050 .444 lift would have been better served on the intake side than through the super six exhaust pipe with cat convertor....

:wink:

2 cents...
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lol...
Quote:
OK last shot
Nuh-uh! :lol:
Author:  shadango [ Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, last evening we set the cold lash.

First things first -- I think maybe the earlier a body cars like the valiant etc MUST have much more room to work in as far as "popping off" the valve cover, which seems to indicate its a breeze. And on the youtube video, it shows a copious amount of room and no clutter........WELL.....On our F body with A/C, it aint that way at ALL!! LOL
:shock:

It took us about 2.5 hours..

We had to remove the A/C hose, wiring to sensors mounted on the top of the engine, vac hoses , and then loosen up the alternator to get the valve cover off. The heater hoses comes out right above the cover and the alternator is TIGHT to the cover as well.....hardest part was undoing a bunch of things to be able to pull the cover off. All that little stuff adds up time wise. The actual lash adjustment went easy enough.....did #1, then moved to the next timing mark and confirmed #5 rockers were loose, did that, then loved to the next mark, etc......

We thankfully found that our newly rebuilt factory damper already has 3 timing marks at 120 degrees around. Just to double check, wrapped some string around the damper, cut the ends to meet at one mark and then used a sharpie to mark the other two....result --damper is about 22 inches around.....and there are marks at every 7 1/3 inch......so we are good that way.

We also confirmed that when the mark we marked as TDC #1 is at zero, the piston is at TDC as watched thru a borescope and confirming where the rotor was pointed.

That all good we adjusted all the valves cold to .020. We found they were set to.012/.013 -- which, if I am understanding what has been said here, is too tight for a stock cam, let alone this cam.

When we had first started last time and broke in the engine my wife commented how much quieter it is than when we first got the car....and it seemed like the engine ran a little rougher as it got warmer......it makes sense now. I think. I HOPE. LOL

We ran out of time so we got her buttoned back up and will run it this evening.......and do a hot lash check I guess.

Which brings us to the final fly in the ointment.....unless we disconnect the heater hoses, all the vac lines , ballast wiring etc, I cant see us doing the lash when running. The front half maybe. But for the back half, the clutter and positioning makes this a dangerous...if not impossible.....endeavor.

I also noticed that our rockers have side to side play which would affect the gap....so we tried to "center" the rocker tip on the valve as close as possible when we did the gap......stuck with a tight side of .020.

Will probably sound like marbles in a clother dryer now, huh? LOL

Also, when we went to do #4 (the last one), we found that #1 rockers were also MOSTLY closed......but somewhat loose....does that make sense? For all the others, the subject rockers were loose and at least one of all the other pairs were tight.
Author:  sandy in BC [ Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:45 am ]
Post subject: 
You don't have to do the lash hot and running....

You can do a hot static lash.

For most beginners a static lash is likely more accurate.
Author:  shadango [ Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
For most beginners a static lash is likely more accurate.
And in our case, likely safer for our fingers and such! LOL

Thanks!
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
I have never done hot running lash, only hot lash static. My cars run well, ask anyone. To get the car started initially, I do a cold static lash with 0.003" more clearance than when hot. This usually gets me really close when hot.

I have not used that RDP10, but it is very close to stock or the MP 244 in my book. Use Oregon's recommended lash, but you may have to hunt around a little to find the best settings. That is a whole topic on its own. 0.015"/0.022" hot will get you close if you want a recommendation from me.

Best wishes,

Lou
Author:  shadango [ Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I have never done hot running lash, only hot lash static. My cars run well, ask anyone. To get the car started initially, I do a cold static lash with 0.003" more clearance than when hot. This usually gets me really close when hot.

I have not used that RDP10, but it is very close to stock or the MP 244 in my book. Use Oregon's recommended lash, but you may have to hunt around a little to find the best settings. That is a whole topic on its own. 0.015"/0.022" hot will get you close if you want a recommendation from me.

Best wishes,

Lou
I thought it was odd that the intake and exhaust are suppoed to BOTH be the same per Orgeon.....I havent played with lash or cams much so this is all new.....but it seems like I have always seen intakes and exhaust being different.
Author:  shadango [ Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:17 am ]
Post subject: 
We finally had the time and weather to get under the car again last night since setting the cold lash at .020 a few days ago.

This time we started her up and watched from cold for the oil leak.

It did not leak for the first 10-12 minutes – once it was totally warm it started leaking again, same rate, like someone turned on a switch. A full drop every 3 seconds.

Very hard to see where its coming from. I can’t see anything coming off of the crank flange itself, and I *THINK* the crank itself appears dry. But I cannot see the block wall under the crank seal at all.

Here is a link to the new video we shot of the link:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Q4Z9ARBRk

I am considering what the builder suggested as far as using a punch/hammer on the pan. We do not want to make it worse. Can’t tell if the leak is at the 90 degree angle in the pan mounting surface or from either side of it.

Any of you seen this type of leak before in a slant 6?

Also, we saw this on the topside – a collection of antifreeze at the head gasket. It did not reoccur while running far as we could tell. Will check again over the next few days.

Picture of antifreeze:

The engine seems to run pretty well, we still need to tune etc but sound s good etc....it surges a little at idle in gear.

But I am feeling a little more hopeful overall....we drove the car a good 6 miles or so and all went fine.....better power, etc.

We did find that our starter may not be up to the task of the new tighter engine.....actually got "stuck" at one point...rotated the engine by hand and starter would engage again.,.....thinking about swapping to a mini starter......
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I am considering what the builder suggested as far as using a punch/hammer on the pan.
Here's a no vote on that. Something was not installed correctly. Whacking and banging is not the right answer; correct reassembly is.
Quote:
We do not want to make it worse.
That's one reason not to whack and bang. Another reason is because this is your engine builder's fault, and that's who needs to make it right. Once stuff has been whacked and banged, it's much easier for the builder to slither out of responsibility.
Author:  Reed [ Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Re: removing the valve cover on an F body with AC. My first and second slant six cars were Volares. The second was 76 Premiere sedan that was loaded with all options, including AC. I was able to pull the valve cover by loosening the alternator and the pulling the valve cover out from under the hoses and wires by lifting it high enough to clear the rocker arms and sliding it forwards towards the radiator. It is a tight fit but doable and you can leave all the hoses and lines hooked up.
Author:  shadango [ Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Re: removing the valve cover on an F body with AC. My first and second slant six cars were Volares. The second was 76 Premiere sedan that was loaded with all options, including AC. I was able to pull the valve cover by loosening the alternator and the pulling the valve cover out from under the hoses and wires by lifting it high enough to clear the rocker arms and sliding it forwards towards the radiator. It is a tight fit but doable and you can leave all the hoses and lines hooked up.
We'll give that a shot again.....its no big deal to disconnect the air right NOW.....its empty....but if and when we ever get that working, different story so hopefully its doable in our case.

Picked up a 92 Dakota starter today.....gonna stab that in and give it a shot...same model works great in my barracuda 318.

The oil leak is a rough one. We have to work on this car outside. Pulling the engine this late into the season could be a fools errand.

I have everything the builder has said documented...he isnt saying to beat on the pan....he is saying it may just need a little massage, which makes sense.....and if it can save me from having to redo everything we did, it may be worth trying....I know it wont magically heal itself....LOL
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