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1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60536 |
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Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | 7/18/23 |
7/18/23: After returning home from Carlisle. I got the car all cleaned and Checked on the valve lash. It seems that I either Have a lifter / pushrod not spinning or a Rocker arm that is not oiling out at the Adjuster screw. It's possible I might have to check on these rocker arms or just swap to stock rockers. We'll see. I took the car to a local Car cruise tonight it was part of the Pittsburgh Vintage Grandprix "race week" where they have various events and shows all around the local area. Here are some pictures from the event. I took the hungry kid out for dinner, while the crowds were coming in and building up. ![]() Then we walked back to the show where she was peddling her wares to the locals. ![]() ![]() A few interesting notes.. since this is a local show near the town where I grew up, there were some Vehicles that My dad either had owned in his "personal collection" or sold at the car lot. This 1933 Dodge Five Window Street Rod Sat around the house or garage since 1984 or so... New owner is enjoying it and actually using it. ![]() We parked next to a 1968 Dodge Dart GT that was sold off dad's car lot about 25 years ago. Same Owner has had it since he bought it off my dd in the late '90's ![]() ![]() Tomorrow I will investigate the Rocker arm issue a bit more and swap to stock rockers if needed, or check for obstructions / drill an oil squirt hole on the chunky rockers if needed. Oh yeah, remember this idea: ![]() ![]() IT WORKS! I have been taking the car hard around some Right Hand turns and no gas dribbling onto the quarter panel any more, so that is good. I just have to open the trunk and the valve when fueling up, but that is not a problem. Planning on running the PVGP Countryside Tour Thursday. |
Author: | Dart270 [ Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA |
Cool pics and fun event. Can you see which pushrod is not spinning? I hear the lifter/lobe will die quickly if no spin. Have fun on the tour today! Hope I can join next year... Lou |
Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Mon Nov 18, 2024 6:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | 11/18/24 |
11/18/24: I have not updated the thread here, because I have not done anything of note for well over a year. ![]() ![]() Work, vacation, and family have been demanding my time as well as my pseudo Mechanical Restoration on the 1962 Valiant Wagon from October 2023 through June 2024. Some things that happened before the dart was parked: Roof Rack bars installed: ![]() Driving the Kid around for various things, Ice Cream, Girl scouts, Band, etc... ![]() ![]() Why have I parked the most fun to drive car in the fleet for 15+ months? well let's fire up the 'ol time machine to find out.. I went on a trip in July 2023 from Irwin, PA to Greenville, Ohio towing a U haul Single axle Box trailer with the Grüne Hölle Dart. I left here 'Round about midnight, and drove through 1.5 Hours of torrential rain around the Dayton area before getting off of I70 for the county and state routes. I arrived at my destination just about at sunrise, at 5:45 AM. I met up with forum user dadtruck for some slanted discussions and to pick up slanted parts, as well as the 'ol Mike Jeffery Flow bench, and Mike's "Book of Secrets" as John refers to it as. On the way home outside of Columbus, Ohio I also picked up a Complete, but disassembled Slant 6 core engine from a FABO Forum member that needed it gone. ![]() John and I Enjoyed cruising around the back roads of Ohio, and went to a nice car cruise on Saturday about 40 miles from John's house. The cruise was at the A.B Graham Memorial Center, which is an old Miami East School District Building turned community center and museum. The car show was nice, but I really enjoyed the museum. There were a lot of AG artifacts that I would not have known about as I was not raised working on a farm as a youngin'. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() After leaving the show and returning to John's house I felt something not right with the engine. I started to head home before sundown. I pulled over in Fletcher, Ohio, on US Route 36, pulled the valve cover and adjusted the valves again. Within 5 miles a lobe was wiped. - I nursed it back home on 5 cylinders for ~270 Miles, stopping in metro Columbus around 9PM to put more slanted parts in the trailer. I pretty much kept it in 4th gear, No 5th gear whilst towing a big, high box full of stuff. Fortunately the interstate from Columbus to here is mostly flat so that helped. It was slow and annoying, but I made it home to park the car in July 2023. I will be pulling the head or the engine soon to see what happened. Possibly the valve springs have too much open pressure for this cam, I never thought to check that stuff, but I will now. I have another copy of the cam, and I will change the oil pump too, as the standard volume one is no good for this combination. before I start all of that, I began a little bit of cosmetic (re)restoration: Hood and Valence properly painted at the body shop: I spray bombed them a few years ago with Rust-oleum Professional, it held up well, but I had some $ so I figured I would get it done right. ![]() ![]() The behind the grille / headlights area was never painted correctly either. I prepped and spra bombed those sections while it was apart. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I also plan on doing some work / welding / reinforcement to the Euro License plate frame. It's all made from scrap steel, actually 1981 Chrysler LeBaron Station Wagon Roof, it needs a bit of detail work so that will get done too! ![]() ![]() 'Till Next time. |
Author: | Killer6 [ Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:29 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA |
Thanks for the update Greg, curious to see what those pieces look like when You get them out of the engine... Jim K6 |
Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Sun Dec 15, 2024 6:00 am ] |
Post subject: | 12/15/24 |
12/15/24: Last week, I Finished the painting of the trim on the front areas near the headlights between the headlight and the grille area, and got the front grille and valances reinstalled. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() This week, I drained the fluids, and pulled the engine and transmission. I have a Mike Jeffery prepared racing head on this engine. It is the style without spark plug tubes, so the head needed pulled to remove the offending lifter and inspect the damaged camshaft ̶l̶o̶b̶e̶ nub. The lifter is also heavily damaged. I hope the pull the tins today, swap the oil pump, clean up and reinstall everything. I also would like to order different length push rods. Here is a bit documentation: https://youtube.com/shorts/SQg3Gcmo5Ss?feature=share Engine Removed: ![]() Dished Lifter ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Author: | slantzilla [ Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:32 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA |
Great progress Greg! Are you thinking some bearing material gled the lifter and kept it for turning? Seems plausible. Galling in the journal probably broke the cam too. |
Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:56 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA |
Yes Dennis that is my guess. I have never had a problem like this before. Greg |
Author: | Rick Covalt [ Mon Dec 30, 2024 9:42 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA |
Quote: I have probably spent 10 hours on this little part so far.
I know a guy that makes spacers? ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Mon Dec 30, 2024 3:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA |
Quote: Quote: I have probably spent 10 hours on this little part so far.
I know a guy that makes spacers? ![]() ![]() I like the challenge of making something with my hands sometimes. |
Author: | Rick Covalt [ Mon Dec 30, 2024 4:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA |
Quote: I like the challenge of making something with my hands sometimes.
Yes, Me too! Plus you will have a one of a kind! ![]() ![]() |
Author: | gearhead [ Mon Dec 30, 2024 6:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA |
Hi Greg: I was recently taught an easy method of fixing cam bearings that are tight because the 426 Hemi I'm building had tight bearings...I don't have a picture to show of the finished unit, but think I can describe the process... The machinist I use builds the fastest qtr mile, twin turbo, nitrous, Toyota engines anywhere. Over 240 MPH out of V6 engines. Anyway, the cam bearings were tight in the Hemi, So he ask for the old Hyd cam core(we switched to a roller), then he took a cutoff wheel and cut a groove across the cam journals at an angle to the journal, and at a slight undercut to create a cutting edge, and a slight outward taper on the other side. He did this to each journal in just a few minutes. Then he slid in the cam and used a wrench to rotate around a few times, and viola, nice free turning and the bearings looked fine afterward. Of course, I don't think this would be wise on an assembled engine, unless you could figure a way to clear the shavings. Here is an image I made in an attempt to describe what I mean. ![]() Here is a quick cad drawing describing the approximate cross section to cut into the journal. These are not critical angles or depths, it's done free hand, and if you screw up, just cut a little deeper or wider until you have a fairly sharp edge on the cutting side. ![]() Again, this does not need to be precision in any way other than achieving a sharp edge on the left(counter clockwise) side of the journal surface. When I purchased my Pontiac SD455 back in the mid 80's, I ran it for many years after installing a new Comp cam, running mid 12.40's with 7.5:1 compression and 87 octane fuel. However, after 40k miles or so I wanted to build more power. So I built the engine(at the time myself, I had access to a friends race machine shop for personal use). Long story short, I finish laying the crank, installing #1 piston with no rings to degree the cam, then go to install my new roller cam. While sliding the cam into place, everything was normal, get to the last(front) journal, and it won't even try to go in... I start measuring, and we find the front cam bearing bore is .014" offset. How this can happen during manufacturing I can't fathom, without seeing how the cam bores are machined and how the tools are held. I go to the recycle bin and there are my original bearings...my buddy who owns the shop and I start looking them over, and the carving knife marks are obvious on the first bearing. The factory didn't want to junk this low volume, high value block, and just carved the bearing material away. I've come to find out, this wasn't an uncommon practice once you look at the total volume of engine production, you will have issues here and there, and certain of them were considered repairable. If it makes it through warranty... End of the story is I had to wait 6 months for a specialty machine shop to line bore the cam journals, and charge me too much money to not follow my instructions. What I got back is not what I wanted, but looked like it would work. 40K more miles running in the mid 11's on street tires at 118mph, it spun the front cam bearing repair at 600 miles into a road trip to Hot August Nights in Reno. I noticed the oil pressure was 15psi lower than normal, but everything seemed to be running fine. Oil smelled and looked good, oil temp and water temp were normal...I thought it was a stuck oil pump bypass checkball or something. So kept driving to Reno another 300 miles. A nice shop in town let me pull my Canton inspectable filter and take a look... ![]() Not pretty, I knew exactly what had happened when I saw the material. The machine shop had simply machined some aluminum into a front cam bearing, then press fit it with lock tight, and peened a few locations around it. It spun, wobbled back to the first cam lobe, and then was milled away on the drive to Reno. I knew this because it was only aluminum in the filter, no magnetic material, and the engine was still running well. As a true hot rodder, I new that in a Pontiac, the very last thing to get oiled in the engine was the front cam bearing, so I wasn't to worried about debri contamination, and I have my filter bypass capped, so never unfiltered oil. I called a buddy and warned him he might have to drive south and trailer me at a moments notice, but I drove it another 900 miles home. Pulled the engine, and other than the cam bearing and minor bearing wear from thousands of full throttle passes on the street and strip, the engine was in fantastic shape. That same roller cam is in the destroked 455 in my car now and running in the 10's. For anyone who cares, its almost the same cam specs as the FT cam for my slant. 254/260 @ .050" 286/292 @ lash(.017") installed at 102 in the SD, but 106 in the 446" because it's 11.2:1 compression. Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, but thought you and others might find this a good work around for cam bearings when building a motor. I've been following your progress for years, and have torn down my 64 Valiant to follow almost the same track you have...especially like the trunk battery box. Putting the 5spd and new motor with external oil pump into the car this spring. I've been preparing pictures for posting about my build soon. Gearhead AKA Karl |
Author: | gearhead [ Mon Dec 30, 2024 7:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1964 Dart Grüne Hölle Road Course AutoX Car IRWIN PA |
Hi again Greg: This comment is because your musings on this thread remind me of the many wonderful years I did what most people can't or won't. But you still seem to try and do... I just wanted to say, maybe pat myself on the back because of the modern desire to never have to deal with adversity, and people always acting weird about driving the old cars they own. My buddies and I used to drive from Portland to Seattle, Canada, Idaho, California...anywhere racing paid money to win. Share motel rooms and pool money when needed. Long before cell phones and instant problem solving or next day deliveries. We pulled the slicks from our trunks, raced 2-3 or 4 days depending on the event, then drove home. I can't remember any of us having to trailer home, although there were a couple of sketchy long drives with broken spider gears, or transmission issues, once even a bad rod bearing(local track,PIR), but made it home. To me, the whole point is to drive and enjoy the cars I love, every minute in a modern climate controlled anything makes me annoyed. I'd rather drive my Valiant or GTO anywhere than let my friends drive me around in their modern plastic. Life is short, as I'm increasingly noticing at 61 yrs old, and I want to spend as much of it as possible playing with my toys and cars and not work and bullcrap. I understand in the modern world these goals are difficult, as your car has been out of commission as mine have, time flies, then you haven't lived the life you wanted because...obligations/time...ugh. Anyway, watching your build, reading of your adventures, has helped keep me somewhat on target to finish my builds as well. I keep wanting to work on my cars, but we just had to remove the 7th dangerous tree from our property, just like that, 4 days of chainsaws and debri clearing...no work on the cars. Gearhead AKA Karl |
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