Slant Six Forum
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Aluminum Head
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17323		 Page 5 of 8
Author:  zedpapa [ Mon May 29, 2006 12:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
remember the head that is going to be designed is going to be BOLT ON and use all stock componets(intake, exhaust, valve cover, valve train). yes the toyota head is a great design and very durable but it is a crossflow head. that WILL NOT work on a slant six unless it is in a purpose built chassis with lots of custom parts. the whole idea behind this is to design and build a head that has potential and is reasonably affordable, very much like edelbrock heads for V8's.

FYI, i will never run anything related to jag on my car. i worked at a jag dealer for a while and found out that those things are the biggest piles of crap i have ever seen, both old and new. and remeber they're owned by ford.

zedpapa
Author:  DionR [ Mon May 29, 2006 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
DionR,

What make you change mind to have RWD car instead?
Two reasons.

1. I'm tired of the FWD launch. It's either too inconsistent, or I'm a rotten driver. I know that FWD cars can compete with RWD cars, but it seems like I'm trying to fight the Laws of Physics and God.

2. I want more hp and performance. I know I can make it with a 2.2, Gary D was around 300 on his Daytona before he sold it. And I know it was on a stock block, head (w/ backcut valves), cam, turbo, intake, etc. But, he had the advantage of tuning his car, and I am experiencing drivablity issues already at 200-225 with my car. Add to that the fact that the car is worn out and I need a new daily driver. Looking at the flow of the /6 head, and the bore and stroke, I am convinced that with 3/2 the cylinders of a 2.2/2.5, a /6 will get me 300 hp without having to get into the motor (other than valves and springs).

I think that I can build a RWD /6 car with less weight and more hp than my LeBaron, and to that end I am going to give it a try with the free Valiant I picked up. Maybe I am wrong, and because this is an experiment, I am hoping to get a baseline and look at the feasibility without spending much money. If it doesn't work, I will sell the parts I can, scrap the car (it has lots of rust) and find a 2 dr Reliant to start over with. :twisted:

Sorry, this has digressed from the proposed aluminum head. I only wanted to point zedpappa to a place to look for factory development of combustion chambers.
Author:  zedpapa [ Mon May 29, 2006 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
i haven't looked at that head/chamber, but i will as soon as i can. i know that a lot of chambers will be considered for this project and possibly one may be designed from scratch. time will tell.

zedpapa
Author:  Wizard [ Mon May 29, 2006 5:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
DionR,

On slant six heads, ports is sized for 170 but bit too undersized and poorly ported. 225 needs different head design with better ports to utilalize the 225's potientials to the max possible.

Appox 50CC, low pent roof with spark plug in middle. The flat areas is left alone for the piston squish areas in two places. There not much to modify
on this great camber design.

http://groups.msn.com/BCFWD/goodies.msn ... PhotoID=48

Best pic possible I find for now.

Search around especially on www.turbododge.com there was several pics of
combustion chambers of this DOHC/SOHC heads.

Oh, this would work well if slant 6 was more upright.

Go with wedge chamber and use better port design (raised much higher).

Cheers, Wizard
Author:  panic [ Tue May 30, 2006 9:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Everyone is talking, and no one is listening.
1. the largest possible pool of interested prospective buyers means a direct bolt-on: same ports, same plugs, same valve gear, all accessory holes, same chamber volume.
2. this is also the worst performance, worst investment per dollar spent, and provides almost nothing over an iron head except weight saving - and less power than a ported iron head. How many people are going to want to spend $3,000 (and a gasket set, and a days work) just to take 75 lbs. off the nose of the car?
3. as the "improvements" add up (why not raised ports? why not cross-flow? why not pop-up dome reliefs? why not move the guides over? why not DOHC?) the expense and design time of the project goes up, the number of people who can use it, and can afford it, goes down. Instead of a $3,000 head with 100 customers you now have a $10,000 head with 3 customers.
4. who is going to put up the $50,000 or $100,000 to fund this project? Assuming that his time, labor, machining, storage, insurance, shipping etc. is worth nothing, and the heads cost $1K and sell for $3K, he has to sell 50 heads just to get his money back. What if only 30 sell? Who is going to re-pay his investment?
Do you have 50 people with a $3,000 deposit? What will they do when a year (or 3) passes by and there are no heads and no money? It's happened many, many times.

Been there, done that.
Author:  DionR [ Tue May 30, 2006 11:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Everyone is talking, and no one is listening.

why not cross-flow? ... why not DOHC?)
I for one am not advocating either crossflow or DOHC. In my posts, I only referenced it as a point of interest, not as a direction to go.

Rotating the motor over was "tongue in cheek".

I see no problem with a smaller combustion chamber on an aluminium head. IIRC, aluminum will allow a least a 1/2 point in compression ratio.

Raised ports wouldn't bother me. IMO, most people that would be willing to do this probably not want to choke a better head with a cast iron log anyways.

If the guides move, sounds like it still would still be a bolt on, maybe some different spacers on the rocker arms. If it makes the head flow better, it would be worth it.

I agree that the topic has gone off with the DOHC and crossflow stuff, though.

I am curious to see what zedpappa comes up with.
Author:  zedpapa [ Wed May 31, 2006 7:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
panic is right, everyone talking and no one listening. moving valves, redesigning combustion chambers, raising ports, increasing valve size, these are all things that will contribute to more performance. and what's wrong with having a bolt on performance part? with some careful planning i think it can be done. and the price will not be $3000. it wil be kept as close as possible to $1500

crossflow heads, dohc, ohc is all out of the question because of reasons stated, mainly cost and the fact that the engine leans to one side.

as i have said before my friend is taking foundry and machining classes with the intent of starting a business with these resources available. this will be more or less his "class" project. he will have resources available while in school. so $50,000 or $100,000 will not be needed. there are companies who will cast products as long as you have a mold. so really all we have to come up with is a design that works and will perform well.

i started this thread with the intention of gathering knowledege and information from the more experianced people on the board. it is nice to see what else is out there, but i am here with a purpose. if you're not interested or don't have related info or have a resource to pass along, then don't post and say it'll never happen because no one is going to contribute thosands of dollars. i agree it will cost money and probably a fair share of it. but i am willing to see this project to the end.

i am sorry if i sound upset but i am. i have seen many posts say nothing but, "it won't happen, cost too much to buy, cost too much to make, etc." i would have given up long ago except for the fact i want a better part for my slant 6. if no one else is going to make it, then i will!

i'm getting off my soapbox now...

zedpapa
Author:  64ragtop [ Wed May 31, 2006 10:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
panic is right, everyone talking and no one listening. ... (W)hat's wrong with having a bolt on performance part? with some careful planning i think it can be done. and the price will not be $3000. it wil be kept as close as possible to $1500 ....
(M)y friend is taking foundry and machining classes with the intent of starting a business with these resources available. this will be more or less his "class" project. he will have resources available while in school. so $50,000 or $100,000 will not be needed. there are companies who will cast products as long as you have a mold. so really all we have to come up with is a design that works and will perform well. zedpapa
I've been reading avidly, and think that about puts the cap on it for now. If the development can be done as a subsidised class project, that's a BIG leg up!!! I mainly just wanted to offer an "attaboy" to zedpapa and his friend!
Author:  Dart270 [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Keep up the good work, Zedpapa. Mostly it's best to ignore the naysayers, as they are always around and happy to spout.

You CAN make a head with better performance properties than the Slant head and still allow most stock gear to bolt up. People have done that for countless V8s and they are still doing it!

Lou
Author:  Tim Keith [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
For $1,500 we are probably better off sending the OEM iron head to a shop that can modify it to flow better. I would never spend that much! The Fordsix site was working on a reasonably priced head casting for the small Ford six, I think that effort is based upon an Australian OEM casting.
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34269
Author:  Team Green [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Don't give up on this project as you will be surprised in how many you will sell. I sold 19 sets of roller rockers for slants back in '96 and '97 from a little ad in Mopar Action. Guys told me they would not sell, but they did. We had some crankshafts made, they were high dollar, but racers paid for them. The slanted air pump needs a better head.
Author:  Ron Parker [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Teem Green is right but now we doint have about 12 true racers and who would buy a 3000 dollar head for 75 pounds. PS i have roller rocker arms on my car. Thanks Ron Parker











Hell Hath No Wrath Than A Possum Scorned
Author:  nuttyprof [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Al head
I'm interested. Budget may be an issue.
Author:  wicked/six [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow Three years between post!!! I'm sure he can go to the foundry and have your head done right up... what cc do you want standard... what valvevesprings do you want standard... do you want coolant passages or not(Race only)... How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go??...

TF
Author:  Kidd [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would buy a new " stock" aluminum head......and go from there, if you had them just that far.
Any new news???
Andrew
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