How's it do that? Wouldn't it just displace air volume, like running a smaller displacement motor? Is the heat a factor, or just the inert gas? So many questions.

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1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

Damn EPA! They are bad for the environment. I've often wondered about the benefits of emissions regulations verses what that engine could attain with no emissions stuff. Like a catalytic converter - how much fuel mileage does that cost? And wouldn't the environment be better served by burning less petro in the first place?

I can build you a car that gets 200mpg easily, but it would be a deathtrap in a crash.

Speaking for myself, I believe global warming is a hoax, but that's a discussion for another board I suppose. We, as slant six owners, should all be getting grants from Greenpeace for keeping this old junk on the road, thus making it unnecessary to manufacture new junk. We're not the ones buying new timing belts every 70k.

Kip on Truckin'

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1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

From what I understand, a cooler intake charge builds power. At least that is what the magazines tell us. However on my daily driver, I picked up a few MPG by raising the temp of my thermostate. So do you want to gain power to compensate for your vehicles ineficencies or run your engine at a temp that makes the most use of what you have?

So many questions...

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Chris'
Autobody
Restoration
Service

I had a Chevette 4cyl, 4 speed that got over 35 mph easy and at the time I really didn't think of it as a death threat. Now would I put my 16 year old in it........


Global warming is not a hoax. If not for global warming we would be ice fishing 365 days a year! The politics of this discussion on the other hand is best left alone.

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Chris'
Autobody
Restoration
Service

I think you got it with the inert (or non-combustible) gas, making the charge resist exploding from just the heat in the cylinder, rather than from the spark as intended.

To a point, higher intake charge temp (less dense air) is better for MPG. Try driving in the Rocky Mts and see what your mileage does (goes up). But, if your car is out of tune or can't adjust to the lower density air, then MPG may go down with higher temps.

Most electric car ads/hype overstate efficiency, if you include where your power came from and the efficiency of converting that fuel into electricity.

For example, a coal/oil power plant runs around 38% efficiency, so an electric car that was 50% efficient (elec to mechanical work) would only be 37 X 50 = 19% efficient from fuel to mechanical. That is worse than most IC engine cars (15-25%). I haven't seen numbers on elec car efficiency, but I doubt they can be much more efficient than 50%. There are other pros/cons, but that's most of the energy part.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Converting an ICE car to electric still straps you to the inherent losses associated with all those moving parts in the drive train (transmissions, driveshafts, differentials, etc).

However, electric motors are quite efficient. NEMA design B motors, for example, sport efficiencies at >85% for the horsepower ratings you would use in an electric car. As to the Carnot cycle power plants you are correct, thermal plants tap out in the high 30ish percentage. Please note however, that the blendedefficiencies of power production are much higher. Hydro power is quite efficient, so are combined cycle gas turbines. Add in the fuel costs for power production (i.e. coal/gas/nuclear is all cheaper than gasoline) and electric cars are rather cost effective with gasoline in the >$3 a gallon range.

Plan on seeing electric cars in the future, and don't mess with them at the stoplights--the torque curve on an electric motor can be pretty awesome and they can scoot.

The total efficiency of an electric car is best measured by the dollars spent in "fueling" it for the distance driven. It is cheaper than using gasoline...electric cars also save $$ when you consider you don't have oil changes, air cleaners, spark plugs, etc, etc. The only pesky part is you best have a short commute to make it workable (under say 60 miles round trip).

My experience with them is that they seem to work best in a 4WD drive rig since you can easily deal with the heavy batteries with beefer 4WD springs. Having said that, I know of guys who have put them into VW Rabbits, etc. I imagine a Slanted rig like a Dart would do pretty good as an electric vehicle. The question is if it would still be Slanted enough...

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Slanted D150

To me, improving fuel economy is a bit like golf; it's easier to pare your strokes from 100 to 90 than from 80 to 70.

Likewise, for Slanters it's easier to go from 15 to 20 MPG than from 20 to 25.

I average 24 MPG in my '64 Valiant. I'm happy with that. I'm not happy about spending $50 to fill up my tank, but keep this in mind to make you feel better: Our cars are paid for. I spend $200 a year for maintenance, so that's my "monthly car payment" of about $17.

If you have a car that gets 40 MPG and you pay $400 a month in car payments, it costs you $400 a month for the car to sit in your driveway, even if you don't move one inch. How much gas can you buy each month for $400?

I think you got it with the inert (or non-combustible) gas, making the charge resist exploding from just the heat in the cylinder, rather than from the spark as intended.[/quote]


I still don't quite understand this. I think the gag with swapping to a warmer thermostat has something to do with fooling an ECU into running leaner. But ever car I've ever overheated (which seems like all of them at some point!) knocks like crazy when it gets really hot. Exhaust gas should be at or near the temp of the exhaust charge. In other words, heat should make it pre-ignite. I'm missing something here.

Prediction: the public will lose their fascination with Hybrids at some point, and just drive diesel or gas econoboxes. But where hybrids will rule is in commerial trucks. Hey - it's worked for 60 years in locomotives.

I agree with Tirol about parts - seems to me an electric car should have 1/10th the parts (moving or otherwise) of an ICE. Does the Prius even have a transmission? If so, why the hell does it need a transmission? And since it has less parts, it should break down less and cost less to build. Hum.....

I see the EPA changed their ratings system and the Prius now gets even worse mileage. And I hear tell that the battery pack (a wear part so they say) is around $9000 to replace.

I also heard an NPR story about a couple of tree huggers who flew to Germany, and drove a box stock diesel Jeep liberty from London to Berlin, getting 77mpg in the process.

So overall, I think we're just chasing our tails with all this alternative stuff. Just make 'em smaller and lighter, problem solved.

However, I'm always ready to hillbilly something up to save some cashish. This is a fun topic.

Kip on Truckin'[/i]

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1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

[quote="kipamore" where hybrids will rule is in commerial trucks. Hey - it's worked for 60 years in locomotives.

I woder if they can do it without getting really heavy

I also heard an NPR story about a couple of tree huggers who flew to Germany, and drove a box stock diesel Jeep liberty from London to Berlin, getting 77mpg in the process.

and they don't sell those here?



Kip on Truckin'[/i][/quote]

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'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick

Back to /6's...

So the super six carter BBD is the best off the shelf carb for mpg?

What about this belly pan talk? Any one have a pic of one? Im not really sure what they do.

How about going from a 225 to a 170?

I have a 1972 dodge 4dr dart. Im putting 2.76s, a 8.75 rear and disc brakes on it. Once i get the suspension and drivetrain bullit proof im going to be looking at the power plant.

Would it be worth it to track down a 170? Im not really wanting to get in to a custom 2.2 piston engine...

IIRC Smokey Yunick once filled the bottom of a car with bondo to make a smoother bottom.

Dusters in some classes when drag racing slowed down when running the old Direct Connection ABS front spoiler.

The cylinder head combustion chamber with grooves cut into it is an idea.

I have several in the shop I need to look at.

A belly pan can be sheet metal.

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'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick

I came across an old small flex fan in my garage that wouldn't keep my big block car cool. I put in the Valiant /6. I figure it's lighter than the stock fan so it's probably easier on the water pump bearing. It flattens out when the rpm comes up so it uses less energy and pulls good air at idle. It was hot here Saturday and I left the engine idle, drove it hard, and left it idle again. Seems to do fine. It has 5 blades instead of the stock 4 blade. Don't know if there is any economic payback, but this was basically a freebie.

Whatdya-think? 1 or 2 HP gain at 4000 rpm? 1/4 th mpg improvement overall?

Anyone got an opinion on Flex fan versus Electric fan? The flex fan would be a lot lighter (and cheaper) than an electric and if it flattens out as the manufacturer claims it will it should have little or no drag? But the Electric fan will have no drag at all, except maybe from the power it draws? But it adds some weight.
I currently have a solid fan, no clutch so anything will be better.

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Grandpa's 1974 Dart Custom 4 door 225 auto, Aluminum Radiator, 1920 Holley.

I remember one member on this board ran his car with no fan at all, but I don't remember the specifics.

I think he may have had an aluminum radiator.

-Mac