Slant Six Forum :: Lorrie's Ammeter/Alternator/Battery

Have you measured the voltage getting to the HEI unit itself?

SlantSixDan recommends using a relay to power the HEI unit to ensure that the unit "sees" full battery voltage.

There have been reports of shortened HEI module life with less than full battery voltage applied.

You might also have a failing coil.

Sounds like you may be on to something there. Check out the accelerator pump and see if it doesn't squirt after sitting a while.

Good luck and come back soon!

I am doing well, and can't complain, thank you.

Your symptoms sound like a problem with fuel metering on cold startup. Specifically, the float bowl is empty and/or the motor is flooded (but a flooded motor still wouldn't start when starting fluid was used).

It sounds like the float bowl is draining- either into the intake manifold or through evaporation or onto the intake manifold. Of course, being over 1,000 miles away make it difficult to tell for sure what the problem is.

Try this. One morning, go out when Lorrie has sat overnight and remove the float bowl cover. See if there is any fuel in it. If the bowl is empty, you know that your float bowl is leaking somewhere.

That costs a float bowl cover gasket. Much faster and easier: hold the choke open and operate the throttle lever. If accelerator pump squirts, there's gas in the carb. If not, there isn't.

if the Fuel line mod hasn't yet been done, do it.

Not to 'stir up' a mess, due to his start problem (a cold start v hot start) What would be the reason to do the fuel line mod?

Has me scratching my head. Not saying its not needed but IF its getting a strong squirt before any cranking has commenced I cant think what it would change. Just trying to understand, and dont think he has the problem nailed down yet.

He is starting to mess with another car and try and fix its malady's that has cropped up with it.. (its a running issue on his '64 Ford)

Author:	JCAllison [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:52 pm ]
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Quote: Have you measured the voltage getting to the HEI unit itself? Hey Reed, No. Could that be done by having the Battery hooked up, and taking the Wire off of the HEI Control Module, turning on the Run Switch and checking how much Voltage is seen between the Fitting on the Wire and a Ground? Quote: SlantSixDan recommends using a relay to power the HEI unit to ensure that the unit "sees" full battery voltage. Alright. Quote: There have been reports of shortened HEI module life with less than full battery voltage applied. As far as the Circuit goes, it is almost a direct wire from the Battery to the HEI Control Module. The only thing that isn't Wire is the Fuse, and the Switch. The Electricity goes FROM the Battery to the Fuse Common, THROUGH a Fuse to the Run Switch, then TO the Control Module. It is about a 14 gauge Wire. Quote: You might also have a failing coil. Alright, but don't think that THAT is it, because of what just happened. The original post this morning, mentioned that Lorrie's Carburetor was given a spritz of Starting Fluid, and Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine didn't even cough. Just went out and opened the Choke, AND opened the Throttle Plate, and gave the Engine a spritz of Starting Fluid, making sure that it went down into the Intake Manifold. Then activated the Start Switch and SHE STARTED RIGHT UP! Brought her up to operating temperature and shut her down. Then restarted her again with just a touch of the Starter Switch. Am thinking that there is no fuel getting to the Intake Manifold from the Accelerator Pump on the first push on the Accelerator to set the Choke. As soon as there is ANY fuel, such as Starting Fluid, in the Intake Manifold, the Engine starts immediately and runs perfectly. Am of the opinion that the PREVIOUS spritz of Starting Fluid this morning didn't make it into the Intake Manifold because the Throttle Plate was closed. Am going to do the same thing tomorrow morning to see if she will start up. If it does, then most likely the problem is that little Leather Skirt in the Accelerator Pump is not sealing tight enough to pump any Fuel into the Intake Manifold. If THAT is so, then the next thing that has to be done is to find another Accelerator Pump Leather Skirt, or possibly the whole Accelerator Pump Stem Assembly. In any case, it appears that the problem is NOT Electrical because Lorrie's Engine starts right up when there is fuel in the Intake Manifold. Will let you know what happens tomorrow morning. What do YOU think about what you have just read? JC

Author:	Reed [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:56 pm ]
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Sounds like you may be on to something there. Check out the accelerator pump and see if it doesn't squirt after sitting a while.

Author:	JCAllison [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:47 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Sounds like you may be on to something there. Check out the accelerator pump and see if it doesn't squirt after sitting a while. Hey Reed, Am going to do that around 10:00 a.m. here. Will check on the Accelerator Pump squirt first thing. If there IS a squirt, will try to start Lorrie. If she starts (which is doubted) GREAT. If she doesn't, am going to attempt to start Lorrie with Starting Fluid, making sure it gets into the Intake Manifold. Am sure she will start when that is done. Have been doing a bunch of searching for a rebuild kit for the Bendix Stromberg Model W or Model WW that has the "proper Accelerator Pump Stem and Leather "Cup", but so far have not found one. Daniel told me when this unit was bought that he had some of the "proper" rebuild kits and may have to resort to seeing if he would part with one of them if necessary. But that is the step AFTER the NEXT step, which is Tuesday, will be going to Livingston and will pick up the rebuilt Alternator. Called Smith Auto Electric yesterday, and it is ready. Will get THAT Alternator installed and see if that solves the Battery Charging problem. Then full attention will be turned on getting Accelerator Pump in the Bendix Stromberg to working properly. Anyway, will let you know what happens later today. JC

Author:	JCAllison [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:13 am ]
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Hey All, Well, it has finally happened. The Scorcher (the computer) has finally given up the ghost. Am at my neighbor Robert's computer writing what will probably be my last post, a least for a while. Don't know exactly what will be done, but didn't just want to disappear without you all knowing what had happened. BTW, went out this morning at 8:30 a.m., gave Lorrie three squirts from her Carburetor's Accelerator Pump, turned on the Run Switch, and activated the Start Switch and she STARTED RIGHT UP! So Lorrie is well on her way to being reliable again. It's been a joy being able to communicate with you all. Hope this finds you all doing well, and taking excellent care. I'll hang in here if YOU'LL hang in there. JC

Author:	Reed [ Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:48 am ]
Post subject:
Good luck and come back soon!

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Lorrie's Ammeter/Alternator/Battery https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48969	Page 6 of 6

Author:	Mroldfart2u [ Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:10 am ]
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We are working on that on another board Reed....

Author:	JCAllison [ Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Good luck and come back soon! Hey Reed, Well, am back "up and running" with a BRAND NEW Computer! But there's a touching story behind it. Have been a regular poster on the FordMuscleForum since 2007, and during that time have done a LOT of work on Ms. American 3.14159 AND Lorrie Van Haul, with MUCH help from the good folks there at FMF. And so it turns out that some of them have taken a liking to me because of my untiring efforts, and so when they found out that The Scorcher (that's the OLD Computer had fritzed, they all got together and had one of the FMF members build a BRAND NEW Computer and proceeded to have him deliver it yesterday. It is a "BASIC" Internet Cruiser. No Printer Port, nothing fancy, but it came with a NEW Dell Keyboard, a NEW Logitech Optical Mouse, and a couple of Logitech Mini-speakers. It's running Windows 7 Professional, and has a minimum of programs, mostly Microsoft Office. Since becoming able to get back onto the Web, one of my first things that needed doing is to see if anyone HERE can figure out why Lorrie Van Haul's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine won't start in the morning? Permit a description of what all has been tried: Have tried to start her by giving the Accelerator a single pump, turning on the Run Switch and then activating the Start Switch. All that happens is she cranks, but it's like she's not getting any spark. Have tried it with two pumps on the Accelerator with the same results. Have tried it with three pumps, with the same result. Have tried the Start Switch while pumping the Accelerator. Still no start up. Have even tried it without even touching the Accelerator, to no avail. Have removed a Spark Plug, put it back into the MSD Spark Plug Wire, laid it on a Ground, and with the Run Switch ON, activated the Start Switch and there's a BIG FAT Spark, so she IS getting spark. About four days ago, Lorrie's Bendix Stromberg Carburetor's Choke Plate was opened, and the Throttle Plate was opened and the Engine was given a single one second shot of Starting Fluid (NAPA ether), and then the Start Switch was activated, and it still it sounded like there was no spark. Decided to do the following: Lorrie's Bendix Stromberg Carburetor's Choke Plate was opened, and the Throttle Plate was opened and she was given FOUR one-second shots of Starting Fluid, and when the Start Switch was activated, SHE STARTED RIGHT UP! On the succeeding three days, have done that same thing, and SHE FIRES RIGHT UP! Have checked in the throat of the Bendix Stromberg unit, and there is a good, strong shot of gasoline from the Accelerator Pump, in fact more than a couple of pumps on the Accelerator and there is a gasoline odor, and am thinking that she is flooded. Have looked at the Spark Plugs and the Ceramic in them is a light Golden Brown, so it's not running lean or rich. And when the Engine starts, it runs WONDERFULLY! Settles into a 650 RPM Idle IMMEDIATELY, and once it warms up, it just takes the barest of touches of the Start to start the Engine. Throttle response is GREAT. But she will not start up in the morning without Starting Fluid. She's got Spark, Fuel, and Compression. Also, had Lorrie's Spare Alternator rebuilt. The Alternator that WAS on her was putting out 12.08 Volts maximum, which was enough to make her run, but not enough to charge her battery. The Voltage Regulator was changed, but still only 12.08 Volts could be read at the Battery. After putting on the REBUILT Alternator, she was putting out from 15.8 Volts to 16.2 Volts depending on RPMs. And she would show 60 Amps for about three to five seconds after starting, then it would drop to 30 Amps for a while, and then would go to 15 Amps which is where she would say when the Engine was running. Changed the Voltage Regulator, and she is NOW putting out no more than 15.02 (read at the Battery with a MultiMeter) and the Ammeter shows 12 Amps. Checked the Voltage at the GM HEI Control Module by doing the following: Disconnected the Wire from the IGN Terminal of the Voltage Regulator so that the Voltage Regulator would NOT in any way get grounded. Then took the Wire that goes FROM the Run Switch TO the GM HEI Control Module off of the Terminal, and checked how many Volts it was seeing by turning on the Run switch with MultiMeter + Lead connected to the Wire, and the - Lead Grounded. It is seeing the FULL voltage of the Battery. Would like to get Lorrie's Engine to where it would start without Starting Fluid. Other than this little Starting anomaly, Lorrie is just doing GREAT. She does 55 MPH without breaking a sweat. She feels solid, has good Brakes, doesn't smoke or have any exhaust leaks. She will start first time every time as long as Starting Fluid is used. Any thought on this subject? Hope this finds YOU doing well. And it's nice to be back. JC

Author:	Reed [ Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:
I am doing well, and can't complain, thank you. Your symptoms sound like a problem with fuel metering on cold startup. Specifically, the float bowl is empty and/or the motor is flooded (but a flooded motor still wouldn't start when starting fluid was used). It sounds like the float bowl is draining- either into the intake manifold or through evaporation or onto the intake manifold. Of course, being over 1,000 miles away make it difficult to tell for sure what the problem is. Try this. One morning, go out when Lorrie has sat overnight and remove the float bowl cover. See if there is any fuel in it. If the bowl is empty, you know that your float bowl is leaking somewhere.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:
That costs a float bowl cover gasket. Much faster and easier: hold the choke open and operate the throttle lever. If accelerator pump squirts, there's gas in the carb. If not, there isn't. if the Fuel line mod hasn't yet been done, do it.

Author:	JCAllison [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:03 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I am doing well, and can't complain, thank you. Hey Reed, Same here. A liittle fatigued from an eventful last couple of weeks, but hanging in here. Quote: Your symptoms sound like a problem with fuel metering on cold startup. Specifically, the float bowl is empty and/or the motor is flooded (but a flooded motor still wouldn't start when starting fluid was used). Don't think that the Float Bowl is empty, because as Daniel said, "If accelerator pump squirts, there's gas in the carb.". And when the Throttle Plate is opened to make sure the Starting Fluid gets into the Intake Manifold, there is a HEALTHY squirt of gasoline seen from the Accelerator Pump. Also, the transparent Fuel Filter is Full of Gasoline, AND when the Engine is cranked, there is an obvious roiling of the Fuel in the Fuel Filter. Quote: It sounds like the float bowl is draining- either into the intake manifold or through evaporation or onto the intake manifold. Of course, being over 1,000 miles away make it difficult to tell for sure what the problem is. Yes. But as was mentioned previously, don't think that the Float Bowl is emptying over night, or evaporating after the Engine is shut down. Also, the is a Phenolic Spacer between the Intake Manifold and the Carburetor. At one point I thought that THAT might be keeping the Fuel in the Float Bowl from getting warm enough to evaporate into fumes, so took a Hair Dryer out and warmed up the Carburetor, and then had it blowing warm air into the Carburetor while cranking the Engine. Alas, that was to no avail. Quote: Try this. One morning, go out when Lorrie has sat overnight and remove the float bowl cover. See if there is any fuel in it. If the bowl is empty, you know that your float bowl is leaking somewhere. As Daniel has noted in a succeeding post, THAT would cost a Gasket, but he also noted that if there is a squirt from the Accelerator Pump, that there is fuel in the Float Bowl, and there IS a healthy squirt of fuel when the Accelerator is opened. Am going to do a search to find out what the Fuel Line Modification that Daniel mentioned is about. Anyway, thanks for the response. Hope YOU have a GREAT week. JC

Author:	JCAllison [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:05 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: That costs a float bowl cover gasket. Much faster and easier: hold the choke open and operate the throttle lever. If accelerator pump squirts, there's gas in the carb. If not, there isn't. Hey Daniel, There IS a goodly squirt from the Accelerator Pump. Quote: if the Fuel line mod hasn't yet been done, do it. Alright. Thanks for the response. Hope YOU are well. JC

Author:	Mroldfart2u [ Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:58 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: if the Fuel line mod hasn't yet been done, do it. Not to 'stir up' a mess, do to his start problem (a cold start v hot start) What would be the reason to do the fuel line mod? Has me scratching my head. Not saying its not needed but IF its getting a strong squirt before any cranking has commenced I cant think what it would change. Just trying to understand, and dont think he has the problem nailed down yet. He is starting to mess with another car and try and fix its malady's that has cropped up with it.. (its a running issue on his '64 Ford)

Author:	JCAllison [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:01 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Not to 'stir up' a mess, due to his start problem (a cold start v hot start) What would be the reason to do the fuel line mod? Hey Dusty, There is another factor at work here. What Daniel has suggested is for a Slant Six that has the Alternator on the Starboard side of the Engine, and what he postulates is that the Alternator Cooling Fan would keep the Fuel Line cool. The fact is that Lorrie's Alternator is low on the Port side of the Engine, so there would be no cooling effect from the Alternator Fan. Quote: Has me scratching my head. Not saying its not needed but IF its getting a strong squirt before any cranking has commenced I cant think what it would change. Just trying to understand, and dont think he has the problem nailed down yet. Have a question about this: Is there any way that opening the Throttle Plate would cause or allow the Float Bowl to continue to drain into the Intake Manifold? The reason that I ask is because with the Choke Plate open, and AS the Throttle Linkage is moved to open the Throttle Plate, there can be seen a plentiful amount of fuel going into the manifold from the Accelerator Pump. BUT... with the Choke Plate STILL open, and the Throttle Linkage STILL open, it appears that fuel that is already IN the Intake Manifold is being rippled like there is MORE fuel going into the Intake Manifold. Quote: He is starting to mess with another car and try and fix its malady's that has cropped up with it.. (its a running issue on his '64 Ford) That is the installation of a completely restored Autolite 4100 1.12 C4AF 9510 DG Carburetor which replaces an ANCIENT Holley 4150. That install was done yesterday and went flawlessly, but resulted in my getting a bit over tired, and so Ms. American (a 1964 Ford Galaxie 500) wasn't fired up. That will happen mid morning today. In the meantime, am going to pull the Spark Plugs out of Lorrie, clean, regap, and before reinstalling, will put a spritz of WD40 and a spritz of AeorKroil into the Cylinders to hopefully help seal the Rings after Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six has been repeatedly flooded over the past week. Am going to try a NEW technique for starting her, which will include opening the Choke Plate all the way, and then just barely cracking the Throttle Plate (to avoid giving the Intake Manifold a full shot of fuel from the Accelerator Pump) and then giving her four, one second spritzes of Starting fluid before turning on the Run Switch and activating the Start Switch. Will let you know how THIS all works out. JC

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