Slant Six Forum :: Al vs Fe

http://www.moparmax.com/columns/magnante/vii_1-7.html ???? dont think ive ever seen this one before.

Compromise on the billet.......

Make a mold that's solid and big enough to CNC.

Reuse the cutoff aluminum for the next pour...........

Quote:

It sounds like an aluminum head is just going to be too darn expensive.

Let's have a titanium head instead, then.

They can print those now.

Seems to me that the biggest cost savings would be in duplicating the Argentinian Head and having it cast in Aluminium. But at the cost of all that, I'd be far more interested in a raised port design that really evolved the engine to the next generation. There is no reason that we shouldn't be able to get significantly more power out of the engine with a really good flowing head. Due to weight and currently attainable power output levels the slant will be a dying breed if we can't find a way to revitalize the platform. It's getting much too cheap to build a 273 or 318 to much higher levels at the same cost. I think at most times we build these engines just because we dare to be different.

Even making the patterns the old fashioned way takes a lot of specialized knowledge and skill that is often overlooked and not realized. While cutting up some old heads can give you a general idea of certain things, its the unseen or undetectable details that often lead to failure or unusable castings. One thing that has to be accounted for is the shrink allowance of the aluminum has to be factored into the pattern size as well as the extra material added to all the areas that get machined. Patterns for parts to be cast in aluminum need to be about 2-3% longer, thicker and wider on all the features being cast or the casting will not fit on the intended block because it will shrink beyond its intended sizes due to the shrink allowance not being taken into consideration. So if you took an existing cylinder head and tried to use it as a pattern, once you poured the aluminum and it cooled, the finished casting would be about .300" shorter than the head you used as the pattern.

the slant will be a dying breed if

I just heard on the news that Australian scientists have made the world's first airplane engine that was printed on a 3-d printer.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/ ... 9C20150226

If the Aussies can print a whole engine, why can't we print a head? I have done zero research into the costs of 3-d printing metal or plastic engine parts, so maybe I am just waaay off base.

"damnation! I just hit the print 100 buttom ! "

first, applause to 67 Dart 270 for starting a thread that goes 6 pages +
what does that say?

Author:	'67 Dart 270 [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:	wood...
Panga-panga has a much cooler name though... b

Author:	Greg Ondayko [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: http://www.moparmax.com/columns/magnante/vii_1-7.html ???? dont think ive ever seen this one before. Thanks for Sharing that Link Junior.. I didn't know that Steve did some sort of re-write / Revisit to the Original Hot Rod Slant Sickness Article. Good Stuff there. Greg

Author:	Tim Keith [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Compromise on the billet....... Make a mold that's solid and big enough to CNC. Reuse the cutoff aluminum for the next pour........... In one of the hobby foundry forums a man is pouring a 450 pound cube of alluminum for a client. There were risers added for heat to prevent cavitation from gases. Many talented people in the hobby don't access the Internet. There is quite a bit of innovation in small scale foundries, although most don't do this for profit. There seems to be a trend of the first homemade furnace being capable of melting 100 pounds of iron.

Author:	Tim Keith [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: It sounds like an aluminum head is just going to be too darn expensive. Let's have a titanium head instead, then. They can print those now. Seems to me that the biggest cost savings would be in duplicating the Argentinian Head and having it cast in Aluminium. But at the cost of all that, I'd be far more interested in a raised port design that really evolved the engine to the next generation. There is no reason that we shouldn't be able to get significantly more power out of the engine with a really good flowing head. Due to weight and currently attainable power output levels the slant will be a dying breed if we can't find a way to revitalize the platform. It's getting much too cheap to build a 273 or 318 to much higher levels at the same cost. I think at most times we build these engines just because we dare to be different. I think Chrysler might have considered upgrading the 225 to modern casting, but suspect that the existing tooling for the block was just about worn out and/or could not be tweaked to accomodate the kind of upgrades that AMC did for the Jeep 4.0 - which dated from 1964. Today the Ford V8s have a 3.70-inch bore on about the same bore spacing as the slant six. But in 1985 I don't know how far they might have gone. Now the smallest motor in the F150 is a 2.7 liter V6, a compact inline six might be good in a truck. The slant six was not a heavy motor, with an alloy head it could have been not much heavier than some fours. If Dakota had been designed for that, that's what I'd have now.

Author:	Tim Keith [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Even making the patterns the old fashioned way takes a lot of specialized knowledge and skill that is often overlooked and not realized. While cutting up some old heads can give you a general idea of certain things, its the unseen or undetectable details that often lead to failure or unusable castings. One thing that has to be accounted for is the shrink allowance of the aluminum has to be factored into the pattern size as well as the extra material added to all the areas that get machined. Patterns for parts to be cast in aluminum need to be about 2-3% longer, thicker and wider on all the features being cast or the casting will not fit on the intended block because it will shrink beyond its intended sizes due to the shrink allowance not being taken into consideration. So if you took an existing cylinder head and tried to use it as a pattern, once you poured the aluminum and it cooled, the finished casting would be about .300" shorter than the head you used as the pattern. I called my imaginary head the 'fat head' because it has extra width that needs to be milled away. Lost foam is popular for long and thin castings, a few attempt LF at home. I'm sure it would take several iterations, but the hobby people keep trying. The only large cylinder heads I've heard of being made at home are for flathead motors. Simpler parts like intake manifolds are more commonly pursued. One person I know made 100 sets of convertible top latches - each is pretty much "as cast", he sold them for almost $100 a set. I bought a set, there not really much to this part. I've seen home made Harley Davidson motors cast at home.

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Al vs Fe https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57103	Page 6 of 13

Author:	DadTruck [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:
first, applause to 67 Dart 270 for starting a thread that goes 6 pages + what does that say? maybe there is an interest in a performance slant six cylinder head maybe there are several persons that just need a kick to get started http://www.classicinlines.com/Alumdevelop.asp is an article where dedicated person(s) made it happen, note that during the development process they tested to verify that performance gains were quantifyable. Automotive history is littered with examples of 'new and improved" that did not provide better performance, to get a ROI, one needs to be able to be able to show that the the improvement gains exceed the cost of the improvement.

Author:	Reed [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:
I just heard on the news that Australian scientists have made the world's first airplane engine that was printed on a 3-d printer. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/ ... 9C20150226 If the Aussies can print a whole engine, why can't we print a head? I have done zero research into the costs of 3-d printing metal or plastic engine parts, so maybe I am just waaay off base.

Author:	Rick Covalt [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: the slant will be a dying breed if I am afraid that ship has done sailed. The slant has been a drying breed for quite a few years. And the truth of the matter is even if we do get an aluminum, dual cam, 4 valve , High flowing head, it will likely only be bought by 25-50 people if you are lucky. The Slant was great, and is great in a lot of ways, but it also is an antique relic to most of the car world. We love it here but we are all kind of weird too!

Author:	sandy in BC [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:
When we get the printable head .......we should make that a sticky..... "damnation! I just hit the print 100 buttom ! " "Honey!?....are you done with the printer?......" What if I print in grayscale?....is it lighter? I printed it in 64 dpi and the damn thing leaked coolant..... Nice,,,,,except its PINK!

Author:	Greg Ondayko [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: I just heard on the news that Australian scientists have made the world's first airplane engine that was printed on a 3-d printer. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/ ... 9C20150226 If the Aussies can print a whole engine, why can't we print a head? I have done zero research into the costs of 3-d printing metal or plastic engine parts, so maybe I am just waaay off base. If we cant front $20- $30K to cast one head. I think it might be tricky to Print one in metal as the article says this.. 3D printing makes products by layering material until a three-dimensional object is created. Automotive and aerospace companies use it for producing prototypes as well as creating specialized tools, moldings and some end-use parts. Marriott declined to comment in detail on Amaero's contracts with companies, including Boeing and Airbus, citing commercial confidentiality. Those contracts are expected to pay in part for the building of further large format printers, at a cost of around A$3.5 million ($2.75 million) each, to ramp up production of jet engine components. Printing teeny Metal 1/8"X2"X4" parts for our schools Battle Bots Costs between $400-$800 per part. Greg

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: "damnation! I just hit the print 100 buttom ! " Oh yeah? Well I hit "Send to All"! (That's okeh, just print them double-sided to save on aluminumâ€¦)

Author:	emsvitil [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Need one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr_PneeyO34

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: first, applause to 67 Dart 270 for starting a thread that goes 6 pages + what does that say? It says this subject has been done to death numerous times over, and it's now a topic that people will rattle their keyboards over just for the halibut, as a fun little diversion from reality.

Author:	DadTruck [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:

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Author:	Tim Keith [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:
I can't recall an aftermarket head for the inline Chevy six, and there are millions of those motors. They do the "lump port" mod for the shared intake runners, weld cut up V8 heads, but nobody has produced a Chevy head, not that I am aware of. If it was to be done, I think they'd do it - a Vortec or LS type head on a 292 would be something. The inline six people are the forgotten ones. Only BMW and Cummins makes an inline six any more. Put a 2JZ in a Duster, it'll fit.