+1

_________________
Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

I don,t know how much cylinder head quality billet costs but it seems that once you programm the mill, production costs would go down. Any comments?

As a CNC programmer, and also in charge of prototypes for my company, I would say that yes, the cost does go down after initial programming, as long as there are no changes.

The problem is short production runs are VERY expensive from the time it takes to set up, and most companies have a minimum cost to make it worth while to even turn the machine on (overhead: electricity, expendables, labor).

Depends on the type of machine too, (multiple heads or single, 3 or 5 axis) sometimes it takes just as long to set up for one part as it does to run 500. to make it worth while for the company, they need to charge you a boatload for just one part.

now if you could get a machine shop to do a run of say 50 or so, a secured 50, then you might be able to get it done for a price that might not kill anyone.

however, since no one really know what kind of chamber they want......you would probably nix the whole deal just with testing. most people would want to see a dyno test improvement, and that would raise the cost even more.

OK....here is what I know. I managed to build a slant head with big valves good springs, retainers , radiused chambers for about $500cdn. I did a ton of research, had a buddy with a machine shop, and an auto machine shop who understood what I wanted.

I also know what Mike can do....have met the man...seen his car run.

I know what Doug Dutra can do, have met the man, seen his stuff.

I also know what stuff can be shipped for.

Heres what I dont know. I dont know how this billet head will perform, what it will cost, how long it will last, whether if I put down some money if I would see product.

Heres what I would like to know. I want to know why Doug or Mike havent done this (or the Coxes , or the collective Aussies)

Heres what I think. I think the brains that be cant see how to make this work for sensible money. I think there are several limited markets for several types of heads.
I think you are better to ship your head to Mike Jeffries and get it built to your needs or figure out (research, research) how to do it yourself.

Dont get me wrong...I have brought products to market myself...and made a living doing it...I even have a patented product in production....I just dont see a series of billet slant heads that meet everyones needs.

I think I need an ale.....

_________________
Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

I would be interested in a cast iron head with reworked combustion chambers, larger ports, valves, and milled enough to raise compression to 9.5 on a stock engine.

_________________
82 D150-225/727
02 Dakota-3.9/5 speed
87 GMC C7000-8.2 Detroit Diesel/5+2

Jeb - call Mike Jeffrey and he can set you up with great power for comparable or less than your local machinist.

Sandy - Jim Cox is working on an alum head, but a lot of things have to line up...

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

A billet head would also be pretty much drag race only, right? No water passages through it?

I know billet has already been pretty much looked at by one of the racers. Startup cost was very similar to a casting.

_________________
Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

OK, someone tell me about this Mike Jeffery. My local machinist quoted me $300.00 for the machine work to install oversize valves, hard seats, and shave the head. I also want to to some porting and polishing but was thinking of tackling that myself. So, if I add $150.00 for a set of stainless valves I'm up to $450.00, give or take but if an experienced slant six builder can come even close I would have to consider it.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

You are getting a great deal for that price, if it's a good job. Keep in mind that good springs/retainers will also run $100-250, if you want a wilder cam than stock.

The porting is where you make most of the power, and where you should spend money for someone with experience. I would consider $400-600 to be a ballpark for good port work (just that part of the head cost). Considering this will get you more power/efficiency than almost any other mod on the car, it is money well spent. I speak from personal experience, and from the experience of many Slant rodders/racers.

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

You are really taking a risk installing seats and oversize valves. By the time you cut the head for the seats, and cut the seats for the valves, there is not much left holding the seat in.

I agree with Lou on the headwork. My new motor has a different head than my old one, and the difference is very seat of the pants noticeable. Car is a ton faster at the track too.

_________________
Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

I don't understand you guys ....... I'm Old School .... (I'm 66 years old)
Way back when .... (mid 60, I quit racing in 69, it got Tooo expencive)
Back then my buddy and I worked out of out garages until we formed a loose
partership and rented a 5 bay garage in Detroit on Gratiot ave.
The only work we sent out to be done was work requiring machines we didn't have
or were to expencive to buy. We learned to do everything we could, why pay someone
else to do work we could do. We did alot of head work, comp valve jobs, port matching
and polishing. I'll grant you our work wouldn't meet todays standards of state of the art.
But that was then and things have changed much. But then again, the Slanter is the topic
here and this is by no means a 'State of the Art' engine.
Sure an Aluminum head (well designed) would help, but is it really worth the price ?
In my opinion ....'No'

My 225 Slanter runs VERY well, I built this engine about 30 years ago, I milled the head
.125 ths, installed Hemi valves, port matched the ports and did some polishing. These
engines respond quite well to a little help in breathing. I did all this myself in my
own home garage except the milling.
This engine is 'NOT' Rocket Science and for all but the total fanatics most of the things
that will make the engine respond I can do at home.
I can't see how I could justify the cost of the Aluminum head. The guy (shop) that is
going to setup to run these heads should assume some of the risk. Offer the head at a
reasonable price and make his money by selling a voluum number of the parts.

(I'm sure I'll have some descenters here )

There are other "old school" car guys in this category besides you who frequent this forum, and while I applaud your vast experience, tools, and abilities, not all of us are on the same level as you. You mentioned that you and your buddy did this and that. I have NO fellow "car-guys" to work with. Sadly, I'm the most knowledgable car nut among my circle of friends (and I know very little). I'm raising a family and have somewhat limited resources. On one hand, that means I agree with you, and do as much work on my Swinger as I can. However, it also means I can't afford to the time or money to experiment with things I know nothing about. Like many here, my Swinger is my daily driver, and I depend on it to get to and from work every day.

I've definitely learned from experience over the years, but in the past I've wasted a lot of $$$ in doing so, and I've also learned that would've saved a lot of time and money by just letting a pro do something that's beyond my experience. When I don't know how to solve a problem, I'm not too proud to turn it over to a guy like you.

So even if it's spendy, knowing that a cylinder head already flows great and weighs less right out of the box is better for me than ?? man-hours of me screwing up 2 or 3 heads in my garage, or at least not getting the full benefits compared to the time I put in. My wife and kids don't share my interest, so time spent in the garage is time away from them. I like to minimize that sacrifice when I can.

All I'm saying is that, while this certainly board helps, nobody's out in my driveway with me at crunch-time. And if it means spending a few bucks more on guaranteed results, I'd consider it, in the same way I'd consider Edelbrock heads for a V8.

Guys like you and Sandy and his $500 T-5 conversion have a gift for creativity, ingenuity, and resourcefulness that some of us only aspire to have. It's very modest to think so, but some of your accomplishments might not be something that just anybody can do. In some cases, encouraging some of the less experienced members to dive into something that's over their heads could result in a vast expenditure of wasted money. And most shops aren't very sympathetic when your 40 year old car gets towed in because you tried to "modify" it and screwed something up.

Sorry for the rant. Again, I applaud the more experienced members, who can build, rebuild, fabricate, diagnose, and design. I'm always trying to learn from you within the resources I have (mental and financial). Thanks for being my inspiration.

VM

Mel, is this the same car you drove on the street with 5.86 gears?

_________________
Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Since everbody is talking about porting heads is there a source for a porting template?

Well stated Vynn3-