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| Need Help Fast on this Stumper, Please https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10279 |
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| Author: | mszauner [ Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Need Help Fast on this Stumper, Please |
Well, just when the 73 Duster was running great and I was doing last minute minor work before sending to the body shop, it died. Here is the story: I filled up gas on the way to church. After church, I went to start it and it would run a couple seconds then die. I thought maybe I needed to increase the idle and mix a bit which I did and it got me home fine. A few minutes later, it behaved the same but would not start. Having just filled the gas, I suspected water or gunk. So I pumped out a quart jar and let it sit...no water or gunk. I tried again only this time I noticed I quit getting gas. When I did the restore, I knew the gas tank had stuff but it didn't seem so bad so I replaced the sock with the new sending unit. I figured now I needed to deal with the tank. I ordered a new one. BTW, I siphoned the gas out and put it in other cars and they ran fine. The old tank felt like there was a 5 pound bag of sand in it. I just installed the new one and it does the same thing. One thing I did notice, if I keep the key in the start position, it continues to run. I wonder now if it is the BRAND NEW ignition switch I installed because the old one was bad. Is it possible the carb could have somehow (through a sock and 2 filters) gotten crud in it? Is it a clogged metering jet? Is it electrical? It doesn't die instantly when the switch goes to the run position I appreciate, as always, any help quickly. My son started college today and this is his car so we are cramped for transport. Sorry it is long but wanted to give full info up front. Thanks. Mike |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help Fast on this Stumper, Please |
Quote: ...So I pumped out a quart jar and let it sit...no water or gunk. I tried again only this time I noticed I quit getting gas.
If the pump stopped pumping gas, and the pickup and lines are clear, I'd suspect the fuel pump. I'd also check the tank/cap for an adequate vent - if the gas fill goes "swooooosh" when you open the cap after encountering this problem, that would be a sure sign of an inadequate tank vent. I'd blow out the line to the tank just to be sure there's no block there - remove the line at the pump, remove the gas cap and blow into the fuel line with some compressed air until you hear it bubbling good in the tank(keep the pressure low or you might blow the "sock" off! - and NO smoking!).Quote: ...One thing I did notice, if I keep the key in the start position, it continues to run
Could this be simply because it is still being spun by the starter, or is it just "going along for the ride"? I'd suspect the switch, or a harness connection. You didn't say whether points or electronic ign. I'm gonna guess Electronic since it's a '73 Duster... If it's got the stock electronic with the dual ballast resistor, try replacing the resistor.D/W |
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| Author: | mszauner [ Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Thanks |
I am going to play with it tomorrow before I fly out on a trip. I did blow out all the lines before I installed the tank. Also, I had the cap off when I tried to run it and I could see plenty of fuel in the upper filter. I have one before the pump (Holley electric) near the tank, and one before the carb. I have electronic ignition. Every component of it is brand new. I will check the resistor to see if it is creating the correct resistance. I still have the old one. It wasn't defective but I replaced the entire ignition system to avoid problems such as this. Thanks. I'll keep everyone posted and if there are other ideas, I sure welcome them. Thanks everyone. |
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| Author: | Doctor Dodge [ Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: One thing I did notice, if I keep the key in the start position, it continues to run.
This is the "classic" failure mode of a burned-out ballast resistor, replace it or by-pass it as a test.DD |
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| Author: | slantvaliant [ Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I went through a bout of somewhat similar problems. It turned out that fine rust was getting through the filter and gumming up the works, specifically the fuel filter. A significant amount also got through the filter and showed up in the carb, in the jets, and even on the plugs. Is it possible you still have some of the rust/sludge from the old tank in the lines, pump, and carb? Blowing out the lines might not have gotten the crap out. The stuff in mine was very fine, and settlex out quickly, making the problem hard to diagnose until I put in one of those glass and chrome filters. |
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| Author: | MitchB [ Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: This is the "classic" failure mode of a burned-out ballast resistor, replace it or by-pass it as a test.
Yup
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| Author: | mszauner [ Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Not the Resistor |
Well, I checked the resistor with an ohm meter and it read fine, so did the old one I still have. I still swapped them out and the car acts the same. I also bypassed the resistor and it acted the same. I am inclined to think it is junk in the carb. When I get back on Thursday, I will pull the carb and clean it out and see if that helps any. Thanks and I will keep everyone posted but if you have any other ideas, I am willing to try them. (Gotta hedge my bet in case it isn't the carb either.) Mike |
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| Author: | mszauner [ Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Not the Carb Either |
Well, it's not the carb either but I will still rebuild it again since I had such a nasty fuel tank. It is in the new ignition switch or wiring. I can't believe how many defective new parts I have been getting. Anyway, here's what I did. I tried starting again and it will fire but then quit after I let the switch go to the run position. BUT, If I leave the switch on and try to start with a remote starter at the solenoid, it will not fire at all. So that, in my little brain, can only mean it is something in the circuit when the ignition switch is in the run position. I really don't suspect the switch because the fuel pump comes on in the run position. However, I noticed that the oil pressure idiot light does not. So, out with the instrument panel once again. As much as I have had it out, it should just jump out on command by now. |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Not the Carb Either |
Quote: So, out with the instrument panel once again. As much as I have had it out, it should just jump out on command by now.
If it's like my stuff, it get's more resistant each time..."NO!!!" "I'm not coming out again!!!!!" "$%^&** you!!!" D/W |
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| Author: | mszauner [ Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | You are so Right |
Unfortunately, it does get more difficult. What aggravates me is I had the whole dash torn up after this. I thought I'd take advantage of the down time waiting on the tank and replace the heater core. I also painted the dash all nice and pretty and will put a new dash top on. Of course, now I will probably just booger up my nice paint job. 
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| Author: | Rob64GT [ Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would suspect the ignition switch if its not the ballast resistor. Make a jumper wire that will power your ignition system without the key. Then start it and see if it keeps running after you release the starter. This happened on my friends Barracuda it turned out to be a bad wire in the harness. |
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| Author: | Thropar [ Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | '73 scamp |
i had a '73 scamp that would do a 'freakout' once in a while and all i ever did was swap out the electronic igntion box. i think it would get hot and crap out. later i could put the old one in and it would work... it was probably old wiring causing it to heat up... 'classic goop that drools down the back side of the control unit' ... maybe someone knows why they got hot...   .... try a swap out for fun ...
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| Author: | mszauner [ Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | I'm Thinking It Could be Control Unit Too |
I don't think it's the ignition switch because the fuel pump runs and it is tied directly in to the wire coming from the on position of the switch. I know that the ignition circuit is not getting juice since I used a remote switch to try to start it with the ignition switch in the on position and got no action but when using the key it fires as long as it is in the start position. I have thought about the control unit even though it is new. I guess I need a trunk full of tools and parts. |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Try changing the ECU, as suggested by Thropar, especially if you've got the 5 wire unit. D/W |
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| Author: | mszauner [ Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | I Do |
I do have a brand new 5 wire unit on it and I still have the old one which I think is still good. I can swap it out and see what happens. Thanks. I will get back to it tomorrow when I return home. |
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