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| going through starters like crazy man!! https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10535 |
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| Author: | exojjl [ Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | going through starters like crazy man!! |
On my 1973 Ply Scamp. every couple of months or so my starter goes out on me. It first starts with I'll go to start my car up, and all I get is a clicking sound, I take the starter out, turn the teeth on it. put it back in, then it will work for a little bit, then it quits totally. Ive gone through like 5 starters since last december (good thing they were under warranty) Wondering if anyone would know about this and could help me out. |
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| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Just curious... |
After it goes 'click', have you ever tryed to start it from the solenoid on the fender/firewall, and/or tryed to fire it up with a screwdriver across the terminals on the starter itself? How new is your battery? Also next time you 'buy' a starter you might order one for a 1973 Newport with a 400 big block (they are a bigger starter and can take a bit more abuse than the slant six one... or you might see if a junkyard has one of the 'mini-starters' for $45...) I'm suspecting something else electrical is not right... -D.Idiot |
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| Author: | slantvaliant [ Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'd be very suspicious of your starting circuit wiring, battery leads and all.The clicking is usually from the solenoid, an indication of not enough "juice" to the solenoid. It's possible that it isn't your turning the teeth that gets it to start, but simply the act of moving the electrical connections and temporarily re-establishing the circuit. Are all the electrical connectors nice and clean? When this happens, is the starter bolted up nice and tight to the bellhousing? Has anyone verified via autopsy (or at least a test stand) that the starters actually failed? BTW, I last replaced my '64 Valiant's starter in 1987. I don't think slants have any reputation of eating starters. |
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| Author: | exojjl [ Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
yeah, i had them tested, and they were bad. |
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| Author: | exojjl [ Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Starting from solenoid didnt work either. Ill try checking the connections, they proboly need a real good cleaning. Is there anything else you guys might think. But anyways thanks. Ill give it a look. |
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| Author: | exojjl [ Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
i heard the starters can get stuck, like the motor inside or something. I know someone that had the same problem (not a mopar though) they would just pound on the starter with a hammer and then it would work. That didnt work for me so i tried the whole "turning it myself" thing, which of course worked for a short bit. |
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| Author: | volaredon [ Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Where did you buy your starter?? Was it a "too good to be true" deal?? On some rebuilts, they only fix the immediate problem. If all that is wrong, is brushes and 1 bearing, thats all they change. Others go thru and redo the whole thing regardless of how small of a problem it came in with. Some stores sell 2 different lines of electrical parts, the cheap line (they may call it their "competitive" line.. the one that is the "cheapest in town") and a "good" line. That extra few bucks you saved isn't worth the hassle. Spinning the armature or hitting with a hammer accomplishes the same thing: one of the bars on the armature has a short in it and if it stops spinning opposite a magnet (screwed into the side of the case) there is a dead short.If the bad spot happened to stop between magnets, and all "good" bars line up with the magnets, then it'll start no problem. Once it gets spinning, the bad spot passes the magnets fast enuf to not be a factor. On the application thing, most old Mopars took a # 3257. The heavier duty one is a 3258 (standard rebuilder's part number.) By the late 70s many engines had the 3258, even smallblocks. This one is about 3/4" longer and may hit headers,etc where the shorter 3257 won't. You know how people comment about the "whiny-ness" of a Mopar starter?? The 3257 is usually the highest pitched, whiniest of the bunch. On the hammer trick, and this applies to and brand of a car, if you have a "permanent magnet" type starter (most newer ones are), DON'T EVEN try the hammer trick, as the magnets are much more prone to cracking by the hammer blow, which ruins them if they weren't already. If you aren't sure, don't try it! I'd try either the store's "other" line of starter, or get a refund and go elsewhere and buy one. |
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| Author: | Craig [ Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: .....By the late 70s many engines had the 3258, even smallblocks. This one is about 3/4" longer and may hit headers,etc where the shorter 3257 won't. You know how people comment about the "whiny-ness" of a Mopar starter?? The 3257 is usually the highest pitched, whiniest of the bunch....
Actually the last of the Slant 6 engines came from the factory with the 3258 "high output" starter too. Then when you go to the parts store for a replacement they always give you the other "small" starter. Wonder what they do with all the 3258 tradeins they are getting from the later Mopar vehicles? I would think the rebuilders have a surplus of them by now. |
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| Author: | Jeb [ Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Who can forget a Chrysler starter. chang chang chang chang chang chang VROOM. It is very easy to tell when an old Mopar is cranking up in a parking lot. |
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| Author: | exojjl [ Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
cleaned the solenoid connections thursday, put in a used starter I had laying around, and then today it became toast. Cleaning the solenoid helped in that it made my car start up right away, use take one or more trys. Do you guys think to many stuff hooked up to the battery might be doing it? I have a stereo and fogs lights to it. I think thats all of it. |
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| Author: | exojjl [ Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
im going to take that stuff off the battery |
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| Author: | exojjl [ Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
hmmm thats not the problem. I think its overheating. If the starter was getting a bad connection would it help overheat it? |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Combining responses to a bunch of posts in this thread. The stuff about 3258s vs. 3257s is true as far as it goes, but that's not where your problem lies. Your '73 originally had a "3257" type starter. The problem is most likely caused by the poor quality of the "remanufactured" starters you are buying. The Chrysler gear-reduction starter is a very good design as it came from the factory. it sounded unique, but not grating, and lasted a long time. However, the market is now flooded with "remanufactured" units of extremely poor quality. They grate and grind, sound like hell, and don't last very long. They do crank the engine quite a bit faster, which is not necessarily a good thing. I have heard some of these reman starters spin so fast that they are bound to throw the solder at some point, usually sooner than later. from 1962 (first year for this starter) to mid 1973, most of the starters (2095-150, 2875-560, 3656-650) had 3 series field coils, and one shunt field coil. The shunt's job is to maintain high motor torque at constant, controlled motor speed. When the engine fires, the load on the starter decreases, and the current in the shunt increases, which quickly and quietly slows-down the motor. The shunt also keeps the motor from "running away" or overspeeding, and shunt-wound starters last a long time. Starting in 1963 on the 170 CID engine only (starter #2098-500) Chrysler used 4 series coils with no shunt. This starter used small series coils, the same size as the three coils in the 2095-150/2875-560/3656-650 starters. Because of the coils' small size, overspeeding was not much a problem, but these starters didn't have the torque of the shunt starters. In mid '73 (3656-575, 3755-900, 4091-975,4145-360) Chrysler switched to a 4-series design, this time with BIG field coils. These starters had plenty of torque, but easily overspeeded. Because of the much higher motor speed, starter noise increased greatly and starter life got MUCH shorter. The reason for the change was twofold: The 4-series coil is cheaper to manufacture and assemble, and the higher cranking speed helped mask the long hot crank times caused by the combination of high underhood temperature and highly volatile gasolines that were common in the '70s. (Note, these big coils were still in the small starter frame--I am not referring to the larger "3258" gear-reduction starter introduced for the 360, 400 and 440 engine in 1974.) Those remanufacturing plants not only put these monster 4 series field coils in all their starters, they also crudely sandblast the housings (goodbye, proper end play and bearing clearance!), mix and match the gears (this makes the starters sound like hell) and, these days, use low-bid replacement parts often from China and usually not even coming close to meeting original design specs. What to do about the problem so your starter stays all the way fixed? That depends. Me, I like the way the original starters work and sound; I consider it part of the Mopar mystique, so I go to the trouble of digging up an unmolested original "core" and having it built to my specs by a good independent auto electrical house. Starters thus built work great for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time. And no, the faster cranking speed is not necessary; the original '62-'72 coil configuration gives plenty of cranking speed, summer or winter, hot or cold. That said, not everyone has access to unmolested core starters or the time or inclination to mess around with it, and most people don't care what the car sounds like as it cranks, as long as it cranks. In that case, the "path of least resistance" is indeed to get the "mini starter", which is a Nippondenso-built unit used on all '89-'03 rear wheel drive Mopar cars and trucks with 3.9 litre V6s, 318/5.2 and 360/5.9 V8s. You can buy them brand new off Ebay for $80 all day long. This is a very well designed starter that scarcely ever fails, and is considerably faster, smaller and lighter than the Chrysler unit. |
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| Author: | exojjl [ Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
now that i figured out one of main problems. I have another one now. Sometimes i will go to start up my car for the first time in the day, and the first crank will just grind the starter. and ill wait and try it, it wont gridn, but it wont be a successful start, then ill wait like 5 seconds, and itll grind, and then i usually get it the next crank. |
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| Author: | exojjl [ Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | mini starter |
will any mopar mini starter work? i found one on ebay said it will work with all Chrysler-Plymouth-Dodge V8 engines-318cid, 360cid, 440cid, etc. im not sure if it will be ok to use on a slant6. can anyone help me with this? |
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