Dosn't the Pertronix coil have an internal resister, eleminating the ballast resister?
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| Dart Will Not Start https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11415 |
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| Author: | Josh [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Dart Will Not Start |
Last week I came home from work and parked the dart in the car port. Everything was fine. The next day I was going to run to the store, so I hopped in the Dart, and turned the key. The starter cranked, but the car did not start. That was just the beginning. Since then I have rebuilt the carburetor, replaced the starter, Ballast Resistor, Voltage limiter, plug wires, cap, rotor, and fuel filter. I took out the pertronix ignitor and replaced it with points, I replaced my ignition switch. I adjusted the valves, and played with the timing. Still it will not start. The starter cranks just fine, the engine rotates like it is supposed to, the spark plugs spark, but still nothing happens. I'm really at my wits end here, friends. Is there anything that I'm missing? Please help me. -josh |
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| Author: | argentina-slantsixer [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
does your carb gets gas? the car never wants to run (even if it stalls shortly afterwards? ) is the valvletrain moving? i´ll take that it's moving since you did set valvle lash... check for timing chain jump... put your damper at TDC and look what happens with valvletrain. cyl 1 pushrods should be freely turned with your fingers and cyl 6 intake should be depressed. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:13 pm ] |
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How are you checking that the spark plugs are getting spark? One cause of "suddenly won't start" is a broken or sheared distributor drive pinion. Pop the distributor cap off and take a look to make sure that the rotor turns while the engine is being cranked. |
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| Author: | Guest [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The carb is certainly getting gas. The valvetrain moves like it's supposed to. The rotor turns when the engine is cranked, and I checked the spark first by using a timing light, then by taking one sparkplug out at a time and bumping the key until it sparked, then by cursing at it. (I'm not really sure if that last one was proper procedure necessarily, but it seemed to to the most good at the time) I have not yet checked to see if the chain has jumped, so I'll do that tonight. I did look at the rotor when the 1st cylinder was at TDC and it was pointing in the proper direction, but I didn't feel the pushrods... thanks for the input so far. -josh keep the suggestions coming, I need all the help I can get. |
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| Author: | Josh [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Okay, I checked again and the chain does not appear to have jumped. I decided to take out the meter and go over the wires a bit, and I found that it's at about 12 volts before the ballast resistor and around 5.7 volts after. Is that correct? It was the same with both the old and replacement ballast, so I assume that it is, but I just want to make sure. Something makes me think that it was supposed to be 12 volts at the coil, but I'm not certain of anything anymore. If that is the case, would the spark be weak enough to cause this problem? If it's not the case, however...what else should I check? thanks for all the help sp far. -josh |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well, OK, so we're reasonably confident we've got spark, it's highly unlikely that compression suddenly disappeared, and we know we're getting air, so the one variable we're not sure about is fuel. It's getting to the carb, but if the carb's stopped up with gunk or a faulty part, it's not getting to the engine. Will it fire and cough at all if you spray carb cleaner into the air horn while cranking? |
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| Author: | Eric W [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Could the coil be bad? When I switched to electronic, I kept the stock points coil...which lasted maybe two weeks. Just wondering if this could be the case with Pertronix....i.e. putting more strain on the coil to put out a hotter spark. FYI, Chrysler used different coils for points and electronic. |
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| Author: | Pierre [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:18 pm ] |
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Activate the throttle linkage by hand while looking down the barrels and look for the pump shot. I'm with Dan, spray something down the carb with the throttle blades open then see if it will sputter or try to start. I'm betting something got lodged into the carb, a piece of rust or dirt perhaps. |
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| Author: | Josh [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I checked the carb again just in case the rebuild wasn't all I'd hoped it'd be, but it's perfect. I sprayed carb cleaner in there anyway...to no avail. Gas shoots out where and when it's supposed to, and there is no blockage. The coil is a pertronix flame thrower that I purchased at the same time that I got the ignitor. At this point I'd be willing to replace it anyway if there is a reasonable chance that it would fix the problem. This is truely a mystery to me. It's late, I think I'll call it a night. If anyone has an epiphany and figures out this mess, I'll be checking this site as soon as I get off work tomorrow. Until then... again, thanks for all the help. -josh |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well, then at this point we're back to focusing on the spark. The cap and rotor can both develop faults that allow a spark across the plug gap in free air, but not under compression pressure (spark takes an easier path through the fault in the cap or rotor). To test this, "borrow" one of the spark plug wires and attach it directly from the coil to any one spark plug. Crank the engine. If it spits, coughs and fires every sixth compression, you've narrowed the problem to the secondary side of the ignition system. |
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| Author: | Eric W [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dosn't the Pertronix coil have an internal resister, eleminating the ballast resister?
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| Author: | argentina-slantsixer [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
check your firewall connector. I had a car that almost broke me down to tears and it was all about one rusty contact that keeped the ignition from getting power while cranking. I had spark and everything but when the ignition switch was on "start" position the ignition circuit would loose power, making me nuts till I spotted the cause. Also check your alt field side on your alternator. You may have a short there. |
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| Author: | Josh [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Dosn't the Pertronix coil have an internal resister, eleminating the ballast resister?
I should probably take a look, though it's been running with the resistor for over a year now without any problems. I'm now going to go out to the shop and try out all of your suggestions. I'll let you know how it turns out. thanks, josh |
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| Author: | argentina-slantsixer [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
clogged ex? maybe some punk obstructed your exhaust? I did a few nasty things when I was a kid, that's where this suggestion comes from. Not that I had an epiphany  if you have a neighbour (or more than one) that hates your dart, there you can find motive 
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| Author: | Josh [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I need a young priest and an old priest |
Quote: Well, then at this point we're back to focusing on the spark. The cap and rotor can both develop faults that allow a spark across the plug gap in free air, but not under compression pressure (spark takes an easier path through the fault in the cap or rotor). To test this, "borrow" one of the spark plug wires and attach it directly from the coil to any one spark plug. Crank the engine. If it spits, coughs and fires every sixth compression, you've narrowed the problem to the secondary side of the ignition system.
okay, I tried the "direct from coil maneuver" and it did pop every sixth compression. So...what exactly am I supposed to do now? I put a new cap and rotor on, and when I take the spark plug out , hook it to the plug wire, and bump the key it does in fact spark intermittently like it's supposed to. Any suggestions? And exorcism perhaps?-josh |
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