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| Timing, Carburation, Fuel problem??? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12007 |
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| Author: | DusterMunster [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Timing, Carburation, Fuel problem??? |
I just started to fix my 74' Duster... don't have a lot of knowledge but want to do it myself to aquire experience for another dear performance project I have in mind. Got the car as is, in good general shape, but the engine is close to a complete overhaul. I noticed fuel consumption was excessive, so I checked timing with a light gun and the marks in the damper were too low, almost pointing straight horizontally in the "equator" of the damper. I turned the distributor and it allowed me to set the deegres up to 0º BTDC, but no further (don't know why). Also I turned both idle mixture and idle speed screws of the carburator (Holley 1945 or 6145, not sure). Now everything got worse... the engine stalls when in idle after stopping at a red light, if it doesn't stop completely it hesitates a lot before running again. When it stops completely, it is really hard to start it again; it cranks immediately and runs, but shakes a lot, does not respond to the acceletor pedal and stops again. There is no problem though in the express way, it runs ok. After adjusting timing (or misadjusting), I could notice a different sound of the engine... it is a nicer "hollow" sound in the exhaust pipes, I am not sure if it is normal, good or bad. Should I turn the timing back close to the "equator" position?, I had no problem other than fuel consumption... please help. |
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| Author: | DusterMunster [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I should add that I already replaced spark plugs and cables, and also replaced air and gas filter. And for additional info, when I got the car it had... ??? ( I don't know the name of the pieces in English, it is some sort of coupler that rises the spark plug and prevents it to get wet with oil). Well, it has a coupler like the one described above, in two spark plugs. When I drove the car to my home town, it started to hesitate a lot, so I took them off and the problem was solved. Of course I assume the former owner installed them for a reason. Maybe with this new timing the engine requires the couplers back... again I am not a mechanic, maybe this post makes no sense... please advise. |
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| Author: | Slant6Ram [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | What is the timing specification |
I don't know what the timing specification for a 1974 engine is, but it seems like you should be setting your timing a little more advanced than 0*. Horizontal to the crankshaft is way more advanced than it should be. I'm guessing 8 or 10 degrees of initial timing advance (at idle) sounds about right, but you should find a manual that specifies and study up a little more about the procedures involved. Total timing and vacuum advance are also important to understand. |
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| Author: | textoad [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Timing on my '74 Scamp 225 is listed as 5 degrees BTDC. I set mine to 10 but I don't have a stock engine by any means. Start at 5, but 8 to 10 should do fine. |
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| Author: | DusterMunster [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thank you guys, it was almost horizontal but below 0º, I moved it up until 0º because the distribuitor did not allow me more. I have no idea whatsoever of vacuum advance, all I now is that if I unplug the vacuum advance hose from the distribuitor nothing happens... actually I put my finger in the carburator (where the hose is connected) and I don´t feel any vacuum... I don`t know if it is normal. Anyways, I think I'm way far from being a succesful Slanter (sigh) 
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| Author: | Rust collector [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bring the rpm´s up a bit, and feel if you have vacuum from the carb. It should not be vacuum at idle! |
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| Author: | Slant6Ram [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Don't give up. |
You are successful, because you haven't given up. It takes a little time to learn all the ins and outs. as rust mentioned, you won't get any vacuum advance at idle. Vacuum advance should occur at part throttle. Quote: almost horizontal but below 0º, I moved it up until 0º because the distribuitor did not allow me more
by below 0* I expect that you are actually saying that the timing was advanced too far. Looking down, turn the distributor counterclockwise to advance the timing, clockwise to retard it.Then what do you mean the distributor won't allow "more". I don't think you want to retard your distributor past 0*. Try setting it at 5* before top dead center (btdc) for a start. As you rev the motor, you should see with a timing light that the timing advances.(the mark will move down) If you don't have an advancing timing light,(to get an accurate #) you should still be able to see that the timing advances. Once you've got the timing roughly set, you'll often need to adjust the idle speed or the idle mixture screw or both. This is call "Dialing it In". It takes time and experience to get it 'just right', so don't get discouraged. |
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| Author: | DusterMunster [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thank you so much for your words and easy explanation, now I get a clearer picture, I had everything mixed up. I really was about to give up, but now I think I can give it a second try...  But now, another related problem. While trying to avoid the engine stall problem, I think I messed with the wrong carburator... all of a sudden it began to spill gas all over the engine from the base... all I did to it was turning the screws, but it was yesterday and it had no problem... but suddenly it began; obviously I did something wrong. That decisively made me think to give up, but not anymore... Thanks. Ed |
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| Author: | Rust collector [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You will probably feel that way many times. I know I have, but the damn thing still runs... Just dont give up, and you will get it done. And ask stuff, someone has done it before you. |
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| Author: | DusterMunster [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I now, thanks... being part of this community is the best. A word that can express all my feelings when I work in my Slant with the limited knowledge I've got is FRUSTRATION. But gladly it is becoming EXPERIENCE... and it is priceless... Ed |
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| Author: | jl737 [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You should also make sure that the outer ring on the crankshaft damper hasn't sliped. If it has, you will never get the timing set right until you fix it. From the way you describe it it sounds like the timing is set WAY too far advanced. Also on slants with the 1945 carb, the vacuum advance should go to the fitting on the base of the carb, next to the one for the PCV valve. There SHOULD be vacuum there too! |
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| Author: | argentina-slantsixer [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
looking at the motor right from the car's front end, the mark on the dampner actually moves to the left when timing advances, not to the roght side. So if your timing mark was "under" the 0 position on the timing tab, it's overretarded. You can cure this by advancing the dist, of course (rotating it towards the block) fut fisrt of all check your timing (I mean, timing chain and sprockets) this way: rotate the engine till you have #6 intake rocker depressed, and see if you can turn freely by hand your pushrods. Top Dead Center is there. At this point take a look at your damper and check out timing tab-damper mark alignment. It should be mated with the 0 degrees mark. If your distributor doesn't allow you to advance timing, you need to take it our and increase the advance in the conterregulation slot (underneat the oil filter side of the dist, 7/16" bolt). Just be shure to put your rotor pointing to the block and do not crank the engine till you reinstall the distributer, this way you won't loose the timing) if your damper is not aligned with your timing tab, could be an outer ring slippage, or maybe your timing chain has stretched... setting the timing off. If your marks ain't match, you can check true crank TDC with a soft piece of wire inside the #1 spark plucg hole. Feel where it's higer and then that's crank true TDC. At crank true TDC check your rocker assy, if #6 intake rocker ain't anywhere near opening, your timing chain os off. |
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| Author: | VDART [ Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | dist-- advance |
before pulling the dist-- get a set of crows feet open end wrenches-- the slant has another adjustment for advance on the opposite side of the 1 you've been messing with, Feel under the dist you will feel the bolt - loosen it up (7/16" I believe) now start your car & turn your distributer, this will give more advance. re-read your post-- can you reset it back to the way it was? get the fuel to stop leaking 1st, what is excessive fuel consumption? Anyow get your base back-- then experiement with the advancing of the distributer,also read your plugs to see if the carb is rich on fuel distribution. I would recommend a chilton's or a tech manual that will assist you. The main thing is try & eliminate items that are good so you can find the bad part/problem. Keep us posted. |
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| Author: | DusterMunster [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Wow, it is really complicated to follow all the instructions given... but I will carefully stick to each advice and put the car together... thanks a lot to each of you for your help. Regarding VDART's question, I am getting less than 5 km/l (11 mpg), it is tough. I know I will run into some doubts and problems while following your instructions, when it happens, I will bother you again with my questions. I will keep you posted with my progress. It is amazing how much knowledge I've gained in this great site from you guys, I am far from the guy that only knew how to start the engine by turning a key a couple of months ago. Thanks. 
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| Author: | Slant6Ram [ Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Even I was confused. |
Quote: Wow, it is really complicated to follow all the instructions given.
Yes, it is complicated. We are all working with slightly different versions of the same thing. Each person has a unique way of explaining the same thing. When in doubt, don't be afraid to ask for clearification.Most important is to report back with as accurate as possible details of what you did and the results. A repair manual might also clearify some of the instructions that we've given. Often a library will have one you can flip through or borrow, or ebay will often have cheap repair manuals for sale. |
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