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| Am I delirious? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12235 |
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| Author: | argentina-slantsixer [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Am I delirious? |
I installed a 1/4" thick grilon carb spacer plus a 5/32 thick gasket. I'm amazed how much throttle response and overall grunt changed. Am I too optimistic or this thingy can make such a diffrence? |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:19 am ] |
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"Grilon"? |
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| Author: | slantvaliant [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:25 am ] |
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Some possibilities: 1. Insulating the carb from the manifold heat is a good thing for power. 2. Slightly changed plenum volume or effective runner lenth might yield a little bit of power in the RPM range you use. 3. Or, more likely, you sealed a leak path with the new gaskets, or corrected some other issue you may not have noticed before (Butterfly blockage, linkage binding, who knows ...). Either way, if it works better, it's a good thing! |
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| Author: | slantvaliant [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:26 am ] |
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Grilon is a fiberglass reinforced Zytel. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:15 am ] |
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Slant, thanks for the materials update. I wasn't aware of glass-filled Zytel. Argentina, Slant's probably right...hey, weren't you having idle issues before you installed this? If they went away, the "sealed an old leak" theory is probably a good one... |
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| Author: | argentina-slantsixer [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:10 am ] |
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grilon is one of those new poly-idontknowwhattheheck- resins like delrin (You DO know delrin, eh?)  not made of maple syrup It's a new-era plastic that stands to be milled, worked and lined pretty much like metal but has the advantages of a plastic application that can stand its own compared to metal in physic properties. Grilon is softer and stands up to 120ºC direct flame fire, delrin is harder and stands 150ºC direct flame fire.
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| Author: | argentina-slantsixer [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:12 am ] |
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pix of the material <img src="http://www.jicaino.com.ar/tecnicas/espaciadorgrilon01.jpg" width=420> <img src="http://www.jicaino.com.ar/tecnicas/espaciadorgrilon02.jpg" width=420> <img src="http://www.jicaino.com.ar/tecnicas/espaciadorgrilon03.jpg" width=420> |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:43 am ] |
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Say, what a cool material! Next question: Where'd you get this spacer of yours? Did you make it yourself? Whoever dit it, it's nice work! Yep, knew of Delrin and Zytel and alkyd and thermosets and phenolics and Rulon-J, polyetherimide, DMC/BMC, blah blah blah, but never head of Grilon...until now. Some late-production ('79-'87) North American Slant-6s had thick spacers like this from the factory. Made out of some kind of soft phenolic that turns to powder when drilled. |
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| Author: | NewLancerMan [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:45 am ] |
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Quote: Yep, knew of Delrin and Zytel and alkyd and thermosets and phenolics and Rulon-J, polyetherimide, DMC/BMC...
There he goes again....name dropper! You're caught.Darn I can't see the pics |
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| Author: | DusterMunster [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:18 am ] |
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Could some of the problems I am having while in idle be corrected using a similar spacer as Juan's? I replaced the gasket that seals between the manifold and the carb when I cleaned it; replaced all gaskets. The gasket set I bought was all made out of some kind of compressed cardboard. The original that was in there, was made of a very thick "waxy" material about half inch thick. The new one is a cardboard gasket of less than half the thickness of the previous one. Thanks, Ed |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:48 am ] |
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Come to think of it, you are right -- that thick "waxy" spacer was used as far back as '74. Replacements are usually of the "compressed paper" types of materials, and aren't as thick. A spacer like Argentina's is an excellent replacement. (And yes, without the spacer you can get idle/driveability problems.) |
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| Author: | argentina-slantsixer [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:58 am ] |
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dan, I made it myself. Very hard to obtain nice finishing surfaces on that crappy poly-acetalic (I'm quoting producer's definition here) resin. Still great material wich stands to be machined as you want. Great for rods, sliders, insulators, can be eben tapped, so I made a few inserts lined outta delrin solid stock that works great and ain't needed to be riveted. I made a plug for my vac choke pullok in grilon (grilon is softer, rather "gummy" compared to delrin wich is firmer) I started to experiment with delrin and grilon in my shop for vintage sax sliding parts replacing/enhancing, and I ended up loving those new materials. VERY handy for any automotive purpose, they ain't affected by fuel or engine bay heat (except maybe for direct contact with exhaust) and if you use'em, i.e. for replacing windows sliders assys (originally made out of plastic) they last x10 longer and produces very smooth action. I even replaced the headlights mounting pieces with this material. (God bless my lathe) Next project is a needle/fuel inlet made of delrin (fuel inlet and seat) and grilon (needle) and maybe some main jet. I've been using grilon for plugging the passages that I open when rebuilding carbs, with great success. I even replaced the piece that hold together the 1920's venturi in place with a custon lined delrin replacement. Dustermunster: My idle leaned out a bit (ggod for my purposes), and my vacuumeter indicates slightly (not much but there's a diffrence) higer read, so I guess I'm producing same power with less throttle opening. (not measured at idling but at my regular cruisin speed) Maybe if your idling problems are heat related you can get a benefit from using this device. Keeps carb much cooler, so I guess that there's less carb heat related issues. No fuel boiling inside the bowl or filter, much much cooler fuel inside the bowl (10ºC less according to a beef thermometer wich I don't trust to be 100% accurate) Newlancerman: it feels good when you caught SlanSixDan off like that...  but he knows his ways around automotive industry. The man is a genie. Don't bother him or we'll wake up Danzilla. 
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:02 pm ] |
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Oh, don't get me wrong—just 'cause I know of the materials' existence and *VERY* general working properties, doesn't mean I know how to work them. I have no lathe skills and don't know how to go about learning.  Please show us pictures of your plastic projects!
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| Author: | DusterMunster [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:02 pm ] |
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Thanks Dan... now the question... where can I get one of those??? Juan, did you make it yourself? Ed |
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| Author: | NewLancerMan [ Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:07 pm ] |
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Quote: Newlancerman: it feels good when you caught SlanSixDan off like that...
Danzilla sleeps until 5pm EST, so we're safe for atleast 2 more hours. At that point, he wakes up and takes Tokyo by storm so watch out. but he knows his ways around automotive industry. The man is a genie. Don't bother him or we'll wake up Danzilla. But seriously, SlantSixDan has single-handledly diagnosed atleast 4 issues I couldn't figure out and saved the day more than once by phone, email, fax and passenger pigeon. He's my hero. MJ |
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