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Two speakers instead of one
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12813		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  '74 Sport [ Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Two speakers instead of one
I have seen posts where it was explained that the original 4"x10" dash speaker can be replaced with two smaller speakers for stereo sound. So, I thought I would give it a try.

I made this speaker bracket from a salvaged street sign with the reflective material still on one side (not that it will ever be seen). The speakers are 3.5" and fit perfectly underneath the A/C and heater control. I'll isolate everything with rubber washers to prevent vibration "buzz", since it will be a metal-to-metal mounting.

Image

Not too many options on these A-bodies to have stereo sound, without cutting up the kick panels. Now I need to figure out what to do in the rear. I have a defogger in the right side hole of the package tray.

Jerry
Author:  Avenger2040 [ Sun May 01, 2005 6:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah is true, you need to cut the kickpanels to mount some speakers, I got in my car 4 speakers, 6 tweeters and 2 12" woofers in the truck, in the back of my Duster I mounted two 6x9 speakers and in the kick panels two 5 1/2 speakers, but in the last ones you need to meake new kickpanels or stregten this, beacuse speakers cand bend them of simply fall.
Author:  slantvaliant [ Sun May 01, 2005 8:47 am ]
Post subject: 
You could mount small enclosed speakers on brackets below the dash.
Author:  Avenger2040 [ Sun May 01, 2005 5:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I ve got that idea some days ago, but you need to get a very good support points if you don´t want a speaker to fall right in your foot or your girl foot.
Author:  Avenger2040 [ Tue May 03, 2005 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Talking about Rear Defogger.
Where I can get one? I got front defogger, but rear is really broken, I got the def that is some lines in the window.
Author:  '74 Sport [ Tue May 03, 2005 10:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Avenger,
What is it you are looking for, the rear defogger for mounting in the package tray, or the double under-dash speaker bracket, like I showed in the picture? The defogger is hard to find, but I do see them offered every so often. I made the bracket myself, but could probably work out something for you.

Jerry
Author:  Avenger2040 [ Wed May 04, 2005 9:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks ´74 Sport but I´m looking for the rear defoger only, I already solved the stereo sound problem in my car.

I modified my kick panels to put some 5 1/2 Audiobahn spekers, changed defalutl dash speaker with a nre Audiobahn and now in front I got three speakers working, also below dash I got 4 tweeters and between A post and dash I got one tweeter per side for a total of 6.

In the back I used original holes for 6x9 speakers and since I removed my back seats I putted two 12" woofers, now I can say I got audio. jeje
Author:  moparDuster [ Wed May 04, 2005 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
any chance you you can send one this way? want you want for it. i just got some white door panels and kick panels I dont want to cut holes in them like my tan ones.
Author:  Avenger2040 [ Wed May 04, 2005 7:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Who? ´74 Sport?, If you don´t want to cut your kick panels, you can make new ones of wood or fiber glass, I make that last for my speakers, but the first try I cuted my kick panels.
Author:  '74 Sport [ Wed May 04, 2005 10:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
moparduster,
You have a PM.
Jerry
Author:  '74 Sport [ Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is a recent installation of one of my speaker brackets in a '69 Dart. The owner used a pair of 3-1/2" Blaupunkt speakers with no fitment problems. Let me know if I can help you with your project.

Jerry

Image

Image
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
with the sound turned up those little cones have some appreciable reciprocal inertia, which will cause a flat mounting plate to flex and create distortion. i would recommend reinforcing those mounting plates with angle bracket.

the problem with firing a midrange or tweeter in a direction away from your ear is that high frequency soundwaves are directional and the only soundwaves that will reach your ear are those that bounce off other surfaces. be they uneven, sound-absorbing like carpeting, etc. what you should do if mounting speakers on the kickpanels is to fabricate a bezel that tucks it into the panel a little bit and rotates it outward and upward so it fires as directly at your face as possible. there was a company called "audioforms" ten or so years ago that sold door pods that would do this.

for stereo sound your cheapest and best option for cutting-in speaker grilles would be the steel filler panel at the top of the dash, as it will reflect sound waves off the windshield at your face. while not optimal, the windscreen is relatively flat and smooth so the sound will not distort noticeably. but firing it into the carpet or your legs will require more volume level to create the same sound level. for the rear package tray there are some companies selling repro speaker grilles that match the rear defogger grille. as i understand the defogger grille was also an optional rear speaker on the FM stereos these cars were available with.
Author:  '74 Sport [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
...will cause a flat mounting plate to flex and create distortion.
Trust me, with the ends of the bracket securely fastened to the dash (roughly just 11" between mounting studs), with two to four mounting screws per speaker fastening them to the bracket (considering the speaker housings and mounting flanges to roughly approximate the rigidity of your suggested angle braces), and the fact that most of the two-way speakers I have seen incorporate a flexible surround to separate the cone from the housing (my guess, effectively absorbing the majority of the reciprocal inertia), I would have to say that the average listener in one of these rattling, clanking, squeaking, and groaning 30 to 40-year old cars (with little to no factory sound deadening material) will perhaps find the quality of their music greatly improved over what was originally offered. But, of course, I'm not a sound engineer. Then again, how many of us really are?

What I offer in the use of my flat speaker mounting brackets is nothing more than a simple and inexpensive alternative to hacking up original door panels, kick panels, and dashes - leaving the interior with an unmolested and stock appearance for the untrained observer. Sound quality is a secondary concern, just as one should consider which speaker to choose from the multitude of options, and how it fits into the overall goal (and budget) of the user.

Quote:
...the only soundwaves that will reach your ear are those that bounce off other surfaces.
Much like the hard, slick, surface of the windshield that is angled somewhat towards the cabin interior?
Quote:
...as it will reflect sound waves off the windshield at your face. while not optimal, the windscreen is relatively flat and smooth so the sound will not distort noticeably.
Why, yes, that's exactly what I meant.
Quote:
...for the rear package tray there are some companies selling repro speaker grilles that match the rear defogger grille. as i understand the defogger grille was also an optional rear speaker on the FM stereos these cars were available with.
The defogger I had did not utilize a "grill", but rather the package tray was perforated with a series of small holes creating a shape roughly that of a 6"x9" speaker. The defogger was nothing more than a fan motor to circulate cabin-temperature air. It pulled air in through the perforated package tray and blew it back up against the rear window glass through a narrow bezeled slit. A speaker could be mounted in the same location in lieu of the defogger fan motor, but the sound would most likely be muted by virtue of the limited open area of the small perforations. This is where one might choose to cut openings in the package tray and install a pair of 6"x9" speakers with surface mounted "grills", if the stock look would not be a concern.

Jerry
Author:  steponmebbbboom [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
...will cause a flat mounting plate to flex and create distortion.
Trust me, with the ends of the bracket securely fastened to the dash (roughly just 11" between mounting studs), with two to four mounting screws per speaker fastening them to the bracket (considering the speaker housings and mounting flanges to roughly approximate the rigidity of your suggested angle braces), and the fact that most of the two-way speakers I have seen incorporate a flexible surround to separate the cone from the housing (my guess, effectively absorbing the majority of the reciprocal inertia), I would have to say that the average listener in one of these rattling, clanking, squeaking, and groaning 30 to 40-year old cars (with little to no factory sound deadening material) will perhaps find the quality of their music greatly improved over what was originally offered.
given what was originally offered, yes, anything is an improvemnt.

for instance these adaptors, made of plastic, are just like yours but with reinforcement ribbing; too bad theyre plastic, but pretty damn cheap... do you really want to know how cheap? how much are yours going for?

Image

Image

i even hosted it separately and took out the host URL from the image for you. unfortunately 4x10 is a common size, used on many GM vehicles and theres good aftermarket support for them already for those who care to look. im just trying to help you make a better product that offers something they don't. like a good rigid support plate that wont flex when pounding the speakers.
cheap adaptors are all over the place, this plate has development potential. it's up to you.

here's an adaptor that will allow mounting of a 6x9 into the opening. there is room for it in our application. but since it isnt a direct competitor, here's the host image:

Image
Quote:
Quote:
...the only soundwaves that will reach your ear are those that bounce off other surfaces.
Much like the hard, slick, surface of the windshield that is angled somewhat towards the cabin interior?
Quote:
...as it will reflect sound waves off the windshield at your face. while not optimal, the windscreen is relatively flat and smooth so the sound will not distort noticeably.
Why, yes, that's exactly what I meant.
lol, did you respond to this post as you were reading it? i am actually responding to suggestions to mount speakers in kickpanels or under the dash firing downward, into the carpet or your legs.

the best way to mount speakers is firing directly at your face. it's called "sound imaging" and firing at the windshield is a less desirable but more easily engineered solution many automakers use. the design of the speaker itself can actually be modified to correct the sound imaging created by firing off the windshield.
Quote:
Quote:
...for the rear package tray there are some companies selling repro speaker grilles that match the rear defogger grille. as i understand the defogger grille was also an optional rear speaker on the FM stereos these cars were available with.
The defogger I had did not utilize a "grill", but rather the package tray was perforated with a series of small holes creating a shape roughly that of a 6"x9" speaker. The defogger was nothing more than a fan motor to circulate cabin-temperature air. It pulled air in through the perforated package tray and blew it back up against the rear window glass through a narrow bezeled slit. A speaker could be mounted in the same location in lieu of the defogger fan motor, but the sound would most likely be muted by virtue of the limited open area of the small perforations. This is where one might choose to cut openings in the package tray and install a pair of 6"x9" speakers with surface mounted "grills", if the stock look would not be a concern.

Jerry
when i get a chance i'll post a photo of the grille in my car for comparison, it will not mute speaker output any more than the perforations in the front dash filler panel. can't seem to find the link for a mfr selling these in repro, i'll post that here too if i find it.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
The radio in my Dart is a piece of crud, so I mostly just listen to the starter and the 225 and the Torqueflite. I get really good sound imaging that way.
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