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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:48 am 
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3 Deuce Weber
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Location: Richmond, VA
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The carb went on fairly easily and the car is running, but I still need to do a few things to fine tune it so that I can hand it over with confidence to my daughter.
Choke
The choke rod from the '75 w/Holley did not match up well with the linkage for the Carter. I bent the rod so that it did connect, but I could tell that it would bind and not operate correctly. Then I bought the choke specified for a '71 w/ Carter and it looks like a match (it enters the linkage from the opposite side than the later one did and needs a 'left-handed' clip). There is no electrical connection for this choke as there is for the later one. Other than paying attention to the rod adjustment and getting the length so that it closes right, is there anything else I should look out for on the choke?
Vacuum lines
I no longer need the lines to the cannister and the radiator, so I capped them off. The one I was suprised to not have a place for is the one that came off the #6 intake runner. Is that correct - I cap that off too? Otherwise, I have the one to the distributor, one to the PCV, one to the air cleaner/heat stove and one to the choke pulloff.
Idle
I had a problem - I kept stalling the car when I would connect my dwell/tach to the coil - but for the brief time I had it on there, I could see it was curb idling at around 550. I assume this needs to be a little higher?
The fast-idle cam was not adjusted right either, and as of yet it's not engaging when I start it cold.

Thanks in advance for the tips - I am a relative novice but I am willing to learn what it takes to get this thing to be smooth and dependable.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:53 am 
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What year is your exhaust manifold? The '71 choke stat is for the "open" style choke stove (there is a separate steel piece that comes out and you can see into the port). If you have the solid, cast style choke stove (all except '70-'72), this will not work properly.

There is a vacuum line for the heater-a/c controls that goes to the #6 runner. This needs to be hooked up if you want it to function.

D/W

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Last edited by Dennis Weaver on Wed May 04, 2005 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:55 am 
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3 Deuce Weber
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It is the original manifold from the '75.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:57 am 
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You need to get a '73-up thermostat, then. I bought a BBS for a '74 truck. Try giving them that application at the part store.

D/W

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:56 am 
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Quote:
The choke rod from the '75 w/Holley did not match up well with the linkage for the Carter. I bent the rod so that it did connect, but I could tell that it would bind and not operate correctly. Then I bought the choke specified for a '71 w/ Carter and it looks like a match (it enters the linkage from the opposite side than the later one did and needs a 'left-handed' clip). There is no electrical connection for this choke as there is for the later one. Other than paying attention to the rod adjustment and getting the length so that it closes right, is there anything else I should look out for on the choke?
Oh yeah, the left-bend vs. right-bend deal. All of the chokes through '73 had the "enters from the rear of the lever" bend, while '74-up chokes had the "enters from the front of the lever" bend. And you're right, it's tough to make them interchange so they work right. The choke thermostat for a '73 (with either Holley or Carter 1bbl carb) will bolt onto your exhaust manifold, hook up to your electrical wire and attach correctly to your Carter carb. But, the '73-up choke thermostats aren't adjustable and the factory electric choke modulators don't work as well as we wish they did.

You may want to consider instead ordering and installing the electronic choke conversion kit. It's fully adjustable and can be dialled in to get those "stomp the gas, turn the key, drive away" cold starts. You would want to specify a unit to suit a 1973 Dodge D100 pickup with 225 engine and Carter 1bbl carburetor (or if they show no such truck, Holley 1920 carburetor).

The 1971 choke won't work correctly on your '75 manifold.
Quote:
I no longer need the lines to the cannister
Err...yeah, you do. What makes you think not?
Quote:
The one I was suprised to not have a place for is the one that came off the #6 intake runner. Is that correct - I cap that off too? Otherwise, I have the one to the distributor, one to the PCV, one to the air cleaner/heat stove and one to the choke pulloff.
There shouldn't be a hose from the #6 intake runner to the carburetor.

Aside from the ones you mention, there should be three lines to the cannister: A thick one that connects to your new carb's bowl vent fitting (top-right-front, same place it was on the old carb), a thin one that tees into the vacuum advance line, and a thick one that tees into the PCV line.
Quote:
I had a problem - I kept stalling the car when I would connect my dwell/tach to the coil - but for the brief time I had it on there, I could see it was curb idling at around 550. I assume this needs to be a little higher?
Yep, curb idle should be around 750 on that car.
Quote:
The fast-idle cam was not adjusted right either
I love remanufactured carbs...not. :roll: It's annoying to have to fix stuff that should've been correct out of the box.
Quote:
and as of yet it's not engaging when I start it cold.
This may well get better once the choke system is sorted out.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:22 am 
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3 Deuce Weber
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Thanks for clarifying about the choke - I was not seeing any available for a 73 with a Carter - only Holley. But if I understand you correctly, the Holley-specified choke for that year will work with my BBS.

I like the idea of the electronic conversion, too, but I am seeing "n/a" for 'Carter, 1BBL Remote-to-electric'. Are you saying their conversion for the Holley 1920 will work for me too?

Re the vac lines - I need to double check (I was relying on my increasingly hazy memory)

I will increase the curb idle; and I will get the choke situation corrected before I try to fix the fast-idle. Any idea why the tach was making it stall?

Thx!


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:30 am 
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Quote:
Thanks for clarifying about the choke - I was not seeing any available for a 73 with a Carter - only Holley. But if I understand you correctly, the Holley-specified choke for that year will work with my BBS.
If you can find the '73-only Holley 1920 choke, yes.
Quote:
I like the idea of the electronic conversion, too, but I am seeing "n/a" for 'Carter, 1BBL Remote-to-electric'. Are you saying their conversion for the Holley 1920 will work for me too?
Yeah, don't use their website catalogue on the electronic chokes; the online catalogue isn't complete. Refer to the link I placed in my previous post here in this thread -- the part where they say "Referring to your list, we can give you 100% coverage on all the Slant-6 motors 1960 through 1980. Then it gets spotty up to 1983." Go ahead and give them a call. Tell them you saw it on the Slant-6 board.
Quote:
Any idea why the tach was making it stall?
None. Grounding-out the ignition somehow...?


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:53 am 
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Quote:
The choke thermostat for a '73 (with either Holley or Carter 1bbl carb) will bolt onto your exhaust manifold, hook up to your electrical wire and attach correctly to your Carter carb.
The Carter and the Holley choke thermostats use different bi-metal springs with different tension.

D/W

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:22 am 
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Quote:
The Carter and the Holley choke thermostats use different bi-metal springs with different tension.
But they're close enough that it really doesn't matter. I've interchanged Carter/Holley/Stromberg choke thermostats many, many times over the years. These days, if one insists on sticking with original-type chokes, one frequently must take what one can find! That's one of the main reasons I'm up on the electronic choke conversions: They have a huge, wide range of adjustability for spring tension and heat-response profile.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:23 am 
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I'm all for trying the electric choke conversion, too. My experience trying to mix the Holley and Carter bimetal springs has been that the difference in tension is significant and affected cold driveability.

D/W

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:27 am 
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Most of my interchange experience is with the '60-'69 and '73-up choke thermostats, and that's worked out pretty well. It's entirely possible the '70-'72 units you've been struggling with are significantly different.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:15 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber
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According to the CarbsOnly rep, they do not have an eletronic choke that will fit both the 75-style manifold that I have AND the Carter BBS carburetor, because of the location of the rod.

So it's back to the drawing board - I'd like to find a choke that's compatible with the Carter just because I'm looking for all the cold-start help I can get. The more I read about my car's symptoms and the multitude of variables that each need to be addressed, the one that it seems to come back to most often is 'choke'.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:33 pm 
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Quote:
According to the CarbsOnly rep, they do not have an eletronic choke that will fit both the 75-style manifold that I have AND the Carter BBS carburetor, because of the location of the rod.
I'm pretty sure they're not quite correct. A '73 manifold is identical to a '75 manifold (in fact, all '73-up exhaust manifolds have the identical choke-pocket placement). If you're really concerned about having a choke that's expressly for a BBS, you wouldn't have a problem mounting an electric choke conversion for a '68 Dodge 225 with BBS on your '75 manifold. The spacing of the two choke hold-down holes is identical; the only difference is that the '75 has a larger cutout on the rear of the choke pocket (not relevant with the plate-mount electric choke) and the '68 manifold has both holes tapped instead of just one (also not a big deal).

Really, this *does* work. It's probable the carb shop isn't conversant with every last picayune detail of every last little change made to the Slant-6 choke system.


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:02 am 
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3 Deuce Weber
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I talked to CarbsOnly again about the choke and emailed the guy some pictures and a description. Hopefully I'll hear back from them today.

In the meantime, here are two more questions:
Quote:
Aside from the ones you mention, there should be three lines to the cannister: A thick one that connects to your new carb's bowl vent fitting (top-right-front, same place it was on the old carb), a thin one that tees into the vacuum advance line, and a thick one that tees into the PCV line.
The cannister does have three lines to it, but one of them is for the connection to the gas tank. I think my problem is that I don't have a tee for the line to the PCV (there was a separate port for it on the 1945).
The puzzling part of your description is the 'one that tees into the vacuum advance line.' I don't see how that would connect to the cannister. Dan?

Quote:
Yep, curb idle should be around 750 on that car.
With the car warmed up, in neutral, the highest I could adjust it to was 650 rpm - and I had the screw bottomed out. I guess a longer screw in it's place would give me a greater range but it seems unlikely that I would have to do that. Is there some other reason that comes to mind why it's not idling higher?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:45 am 
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I talked to CarbsOnly again about the choke and emailed the guy some pictures and a description. Hopefully I'll hear back from them today.
They're pretty customer service oriented, and maybe the pictures will help. In the end, if they say "We're really not sure", offer to buy the kit for a '68-'69 Dodge with 225 and Carter BBS if they'll let you send it back if it doesn't fit.
Quote:
The cannister does have three lines to it, but one of them is for the connection to the gas tank. I think my problem is that I don't have a tee for the line to the PCV (there was a separate port for it on the 1945).
The puzzling part of your description is the 'one that tees into the vacuum advance line.' I don't see how that would connect to the cannister. Dan?
You're installing a carb without cannister provisions onto a car with a cannister, so you need to duplicate the function of the extra ports your carb doesn't have. To do so, you'll need to buy some tee (T) or wye (Y) connectors. One large one that'll let you tie into the large-diameter hose that runs from your PCV valve to your carburetor, and—if there is a small-diameter fitting anywhere on your cannister—one small one that'll let you tie into the small-diameter hose that runs from the carburetor body to the distributor vacuum advance.

Why the distirbutor vacuum advance line? There's vacuum in the distributor vacuum line only above idle, so the cannister purge valve only opens above idle. so only above idle are fuel vapors were only drawn off out of the cannister (through the large line teed into the PCV line) and burned. If that weren't the case, the fuel vapors would be drawn off during starting and idling, too—that's how it was in '70-'71—and hot starting and idling would be very poor.

Large tank vent line connected to the "TANK" port (middle)

Large carb bowl vent line connected to the "CARB" or "BOWL" port (outboard)

Large purge line connected to the "PURGE" port (inboard); the other end of this line tees into the PCV hose

Small purge valve trigger hose connects to the one and only small port on top of the cannister purge valve near the "PURGE" port; other end of this line tees into the vacuum advance hose -- if applicable.

Some cannisters (your '75 may be one of them) do not have the small-diameter line; they use a different kind of purge valve and the instructions for tying-in the vacuum advance line can in that case be disregarded.
Quote:
With the car warmed up, in neutral, the highest I could adjust it to was 650 rpm - and I had the screw bottomed out.
What's your basic ignition timing?
Quote:
I guess a longer screw in it's place would give me a greater range but it seems unlikely that I would have to do that.
If the screw in the carb's throttle lever is the correct one, no, you shouldn't have to. If, on the other hand, an incorrect screw made it into that lever at some point in the past...

If 650 rpm is what you can achieve, and the engine starts and runs reliably and idles well, don't worry about it too much.


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