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kerosene
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12989		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  AWOL [ Sat May 14, 2005 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  kerosene
today i pulled off the rocker assembly from the head and gave it a good cleaning. just about every tapper was clogged. after that was done and assembled, i looked for the spattering of oil mentioned earlier, and it was definately there... mainly on cylinders 4,5,and 6. with just how badly clogged it was up there, im guessing the rest of the engine aint so pretty either.
(later on that evening)
i was chatting with a buddy down at the tavern about this, and he mentioned an "age old solution" of about 3 quarts kerosone, and two quarts motor oil in the pan, and let it run for about a half hour. said she'd be clean as a whistle.
??
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat May 14, 2005 6:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
All 12 rockers should be oiling evenly. If you've only got oil spattering at the rear of the engine, your rocker shaft is very likely improperly installed (upside down and/or end-for-end backwards). There's a little flat ground on the outer edge of one of the ends. It goes "top front".

As for engine flushing: Be careful, and read This.
Author:  AWOL [ Sat May 14, 2005 7:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
those oil ports up top on the rockers.... i hope those are the smallest in diameter on the engine, if not i feel i gotta take the whole schlamiel apart
Author:  Demon Dick [ Sat May 14, 2005 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Kerosene
As for running kerosene in the pan, a word of caution. I tried it on a 71 Duster with 110K on the clock,back in the late 70's, and ended up having to drop the pan because of a clogged oil pickup screen. I can't say if it did much other damage to the engine, because it was already pretty tired,and I didn't notice any unusual noise from it. In all honesty, if the engine is that dirty on the inside, you should drop the pan anyway, and see what may have fallen while you were cleaning the upper end.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat May 14, 2005 8:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
They're definitely some of the very smallest, yes.
Author:  AWOL [ Sat May 14, 2005 8:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
ok, so i read about slantsixdans' concoction to clean out the motor. what are the different methods and thier saftey/effectiveness levels?
how about the kerosene?
whats really gonna melt and break all what i want away, and nothin i dont, without blowing up.

i basically had to pull out the adjuster screws on the rockers, and chisel away the near concrete in thier tiny drain passages. without having a clean one to have gone by, i wouldve thought the threaded hole for the screw was solid threads internally all the way around
...liquid ether and sand!!!
Author:  Demon Dick [ Sat May 14, 2005 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Rocker oil ports
Even though it means more work I'd be inclined to remove the entire rack and disassemble it for clraning. It sounds like your going to have a heck of a time cleaning the ports in the rockers anyway, and who knows what tin inside of the rocker shaft looks like? You could end up by pushing more gunk into a freshly cleaned port. If you pull the rack off then you might be able to get a peice of wire down the feed port to make sure that its wide open too. Dick
Author:  '74 Sport [ Sat May 14, 2005 11:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
AWOL, I'm afraid that I am looking at having to do the same thing you are fighting with. We finally got my son's slant running today, and there was no oil coming out of any of the tiny holes. It's running about 50-55 psi oil pressure, and it ran plenty of time to get oil circulating up there. I hate to do it, but I guess we will take it all apart tomorrow and try to track down the problem.

A couple of years ago, when we bought his car and got it off the trailer at our shop, he started it up and drove it around the pasture a couple of times. I opened the oil fill cap on the valve cover and saw no fresh oil anywhere. That's when we decided to overhaul the engine. When we pulled the valve cover, half inch thick slabs of petrified gunk had to be pried out. The rocker arms were dismantled and hot vatted, along with the engine block. I even rodded out the tiny ports, just like you described. There has to be something else clogged up with some of that ancient crud.

I seem to recall the longest bolt in the rear position had a hole in it. Do you know if that hole has to be oriented any particular direction? And slantsixdan suggested removing the plugs from the shaft's ends. Have you done that to inspect the inside of the shaft? If so, how did you get them out, and were they in any condition to put back in?

Jerry
Author:  Demon Dick [ Sun May 15, 2005 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Oil gallery to the head
Jerry, it's been awhile since I'vehad one apart, so I can't remember if it was the last bolt in the back or the second to the last, but if you look on the rocker shaft tube you will notice one of the holes is larger to facilitate the oil passage to the rockers. Find that hole, with a fairly stiff wire feel around in there and you should feel the passage off to the side of the hole. As I remember I had to flatten the wire on the end a bit and make sort of a paddle bit out of it, and crank it around to work up the crud. As You clean it you might try shooting some WD40 down it with the little tube that comes with it, to help wash away the crud, and it may pass on right on throught when you get the passage open. Hope this helps. Dick
Author:  Avenger2040 [ Sun May 15, 2005 6:29 am ]
Post subject: 
And what about engine cleaning products? Like Liqui Molly engine cleaner?, are they safe, my dad says that if I use those products the engine will start to pass oil and later I will need to rectify the engine, what do you think people?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun May 15, 2005 8:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
AWOL, I'm afraid that I am looking at having to do the same thing you are fighting with. We finally got my son's slant running today, and there was no oil coming out of any of the tiny holes. It's running about 50-55 psi oil pressure, and it ran plenty of time to get oil circulating up there. I hate to do it, but I guess we will take it all apart tomorrow and try to track down the problem.
Check the easy stuff first. Is the little flat on the edge of the rim of the rocker shaft "top front"? If not, you may get away with reinstalling the shaft properly.
Quote:
I seem to recall the longest bolt in the rear position had a hole in it.
I don't remember a hole in the rearmost bolt, but I could be wrong. The way I remember it, the rearmost bolt is a special shoulder design, extra-long, which secures the shaft to the rearmost pedestal such that the extra-large bottom rear rocker shaft bolt hole interfaces with the extra-large hole in that pedestal, and that's where the oil feeds in. If the shaft is installed upside down or backwards, a regular small bolt hole in the shaft will be pressed against the extra-large pedestal hole, so no (or very little oil) will be able to get into the rocker shaft.
Quote:
slantsixdan suggested removing the plugs from the shaft's ends. Have you done that to inspect the inside of the shaft? If so, how did you get them out, and were they in any condition to put back in?
They're ordinary one-use-only cup plugs, of the same type that are used as engine block freeze plugs, only smaller. You spike 'em through the middle and pry 'em out, then install new ones when it's time to reassemble.
Author:  '74 Sport [ Sun May 15, 2005 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Dan,
I hope we are closing in on this oiling problem. My guess is that it is probably going to be found in the rocker assembly. When we originally broke this engine down for rebuild, the only items not dismantled for cleaning were the rocker adjustment screws and the rocker shaft (didn't know we could, or should). Sounds like AWOL determined the adjustment screws have vertical grooves cut through the threads, to make passages for oil flow. We'll start our search there. If we remove the plugs for cleaning the shaft out, are the replacement plugs found at a local parts store?

I looked the ends of the shaft over very carefully and did not see any sort of flat edge on either end. Even though installed, I used an inspection mirror to get all around the rear end of the shaft. Is this flat you talk about common on all year models? Is it found on the top surface contacting the hold-down washer, or is it on one of the side faces? Do you have a pic you can post?

Jerry
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun May 15, 2005 9:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
If we remove the plugs for cleaning the shaft out, are the replacement plugs found at a local parts store?
A well-stocked one, yes, in the Dorman or Hillman slide-out drawers (with the double-ended threaded studs, brass nuts, rubber stoppers, assorted springs, etc.)
Quote:
I looked the ends of the shaft over very carefully and did not see any sort of flat edge on either end. Even though installed, I used an inspection mirror to get all around the rear end of the shaft. Is this flat you talk about common on all year models? Is it found on the top surface contacting the hold-down washer, or is it on one of the side faces? Do you have a pic you can post?
I may have a pic at the office; I'll see if I can find it and scan it in when I go over to feed the guard cats later. I may not be describing it quite accurately. In the interim, here's a crude drawing I've made to represent the location of the flat:

Image

I have a vague recollection that the flat may have been deleted from production at some point along the line, but I may be totally making that up. Sometimes the flat is not very conspicuous! If you absolutely can't find it, you may have to bite the bullet and check "the hard way": Remove the rocker shaft, and make sure that the extra-large bolt hole mates directly with the rearmost rocker shaft pedestal. If you have to go to the trouble, make sure you only have to do it once...grind your own flat at the top-front rim once everything's installed correctly!

-DS
Image
Author:  Rust collector [ Sun May 15, 2005 9:20 am ]
Post subject: 
The flat was not used on all engines.
I don´t know what engines got them, and who didn´t, or the year, but not all have them.
Author:  GTS225 [ Sun May 15, 2005 12:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
As for that bolt/hole question; The rear-most bolt holding the rocker shaft to the pedestals is hollow, as the oil for the top end comes out of the rear cam bearing/journal interface. So that might be something to check for. Pull that bolt, (NOT while the engine is running), and make sure the passage(s) are clear. From there, work your way through the rocker gear. It may very well be that most of your rocker arm passages are plugged up with gunk.

IMO.......The number one engine cleaner is fresh, clean oil. Do a few "short-cycle" oil/filter changes for awhile, maybe about every 1,000 miles for four or five times.

Roger
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