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Fuel Sender Unit ??
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13616		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  74DartSwinger [ Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Fuel Sender Unit ??
Hey everybody.
I have a little problem. I have to replace my gas tank in my "75" Swinger.
I looked everwhere for the proper sending unit with two outlets. The problem is that all the replacement units I could find only have the one outlet. (tried all the links and suggestions from this and other sites)I am pretty sure that the second one is for the charcoal cannister thingy. My car is exempt from smog in my state and I can do without the cannister, but I need to know if just removing the parts and plugging off the holes will change timing or anything else wierd. I'm not much of a mechanic so to speak, but pretty good at remove replace kind of stuff. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chas///
Author:  Craig [ Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
The sender only has one outlet. The fuel tank has a built-in "outlet" at the top, above the sender. That is part of the tank. This is a vent that vents to the charcoal canister.
Author:  74DartSwinger [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Craig, you are correct about the one line coming out of the tank. But I guess I have a wierd set up or something. I took a pic of the sender out of my tank and of a view of the 3 fuel lines up under the car with the tank removed. Now I do know that the line on the sender with the little screen is for fuel to carb. Im guessing that the other one recirculates fumes to somewhere on the carb. I am thinking I may take my new sender when I get it to my friend at the radiiator shop and have him drill it and braise in the second line just to be on the safe side.
http://www.softcom.net/users/brysun/fuel1.jpg

http://www.softcom.net/users/brysun/fuel2.jpg
Author:  Craig [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Well now, that is most interesting!! Where does this second line from the sender go to?

Are the tube on the sender 1/4" and 5/16" or are they 5/16" and 3/8" ??

Are you sure this is a Valiant ? or is it a Volaré ?

Can you take another picture of the sender that shows how the second tube terminates. Lookes like it goes to a hose but I can't see in your picture where the other end goes.

There was some mention on this forum a few weeks ago that Spectra Premium makes a sender with a return line. However it looks like your sender has some rust/corrison on it and may have been in there a long time, but this still does not explain the third line on the car. I want to know more!
Author:  74DartSwinger [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Craig. Actually it's a dart swinger(75)
They both terminate at different places on the carb. I looked at the smog routing sticker under the hood and it shows where everything goes. I think the difference may be that it is a California emissions car . Anyways I have two pics one is the routing sticker. I couldnt fit it all in the pic so I got a view of it from the cannister to the carb. Second one is where they go into the carb. The one going in from the left comes from the canister and is the extra, unknown one. The larger one also comes from the canister and goes into the front and it
is called the carb bowl vent hose. Whatever that is..hehe..
OK I went back and read your post again. Here is a pic also oof the sender unit second tube. It goes into the tank at an angle and has what feels like a rubber or plastic straw on it..
http://www.softcom.net/users/brysun/fuel3.jpg
http://www.softcom.net/users/brysun/fuel4.jpg
http://www.softcom.net/users/brysun/fuel5.jpg
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
The 2nd fitting on the '75-'76 sender (factory P/N 4051006, may still be available) is a fuel vapor return. It's meant to connect to the 3rd (small) fitting on the 3-fitting fuel filter.
Spectra Premium ( www.spectrapremium.com ) offers the sender in an oddball combination of 3/8" line size (factory was 5/16") with fuel return, or 5/16" without.
Author:  Pierre [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dan, how big was the fuel vapor return, 5/16"? So that oddball spectra unit would have 3/8" fuel delivery and 5/16" return?
Author:  Craig [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Chas,
I just did some digging through the 1975 factory service manual looking for California specific things. All I could find is where it says "A new dual purpose fuel filter-vapor separator (Fig. 7) is used on all California Requirement Engines and on the 400 CID Federal Requirement Engines equipped with a 2 BBL carburetor." The manual also shows a different fuel pump part number for California versus non-California vehicles. Anyone know why California needs a different fuel pump and what is different about it?

Image

So this explains the second tube on your fuel sender. Now, what type of fuel filter is on this car and where is it located?? This "vapor return line" is not shown on your hose diagram.

Also note that this vapor return line is different than the fuel tank vent line that goes to the charcoal canister. Mabye you have this confused?

You also seem to have another question about a hose between the carburetor and charcoal canister. The red hose on the diagram is the "canister purge" hose. It draws the fuel vapors from the canister into the engine through a ported port in the carburtor, it only draws the vapors from the canister when the throttle is open above idle.

Keep the charcoal canister hooked up and working, it does no harm and keeps the fuel vapors from fouling the air you breath.
Author:  74DartSwinger [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Craig ..Thank you very much for helping me out.
looks like Slant Six Dan has found the part that I need.
Thank you Dan.
This is a great place.

I do intend to keep the charcoal canister intact for just that reason. Also I would like to keep the EGR. I do, however wish that I didn't have to waste horsepower turning that darned Smog pump.
Chas///
Author:  Craig [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Chas,
I'd still like to know what type of fuel filter your car has and where it is mounted..
Craig
Author:  74DartSwinger [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Craig.
Just a single regular style fuel filter. Between the fuel pump and carb.
Nothing like that picture at all.
Sorry it' takes awhile for me to respond. I've been in and out all ay. De-rusting my front floor boards...
Chas///
Author:  Craig [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok. When you get a chance, find out where the other end of that second line from the fuel sender goes to. Mabye you have a "vapor separator" near the fuel pump or a special fuel pump with a vapor outlet???? Or someone disconnected the vapor return line on the engine end and installed a regular fuel filter??
Author:  74DartSwinger [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Ok. When you get a chance, find out where the other end of that second line from the fuel sender goes to. Mabye you have a "vapor separator" near the fuel pump or a special fuel pump with a vapor outlet???? Or someone disconnected the vapor return line on the engine end and installed a regular fuel filter??
Ok I'll trace it down as soon as I get a chance probably tomorrow or the next day....
C//
Author:  74DartSwinger [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Craig. I got outside and looked that thing over. Now I feel like a real idiot. :oops: I do have the wierd fuel filter and that is where that line goes to.
Luckily I should have the right sender on it's way to me (at least I ordered the right part number)
I really thank you for the help.
Author:  Craig [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, that mystery is solved! Heh heh.
When you get time, can you snap a few pictures to show me the routing of that return line? I'd like to see how it routes through the engine compartment. I may need to add that to my 76 Valiant that boils its fuel anytime it is above 35ºF.

What are they going to soak you for that sender? ASK for a discount. My local Chrysler/Daimler dealer gives me 20% or so off of "list" price.

Oh, and that fuel filter is not "weird". It became standard equipment on most Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth vehicles during the late '70's through the last of the 80's carbureted vehicles. You can easily get that filter any any auto parts place.
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