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fuel injection update(now with pictures!)
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13668		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ShivaDart [ Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  fuel injection update(now with pictures!)
As I've stated ealier I'm working on switching my car over to fuel injection. Everything's installed, I've got pressure, right now I'm only trying to get the injectors to fire.

Components:
offy intake manifold
autonomics throttle body injection setup(word of warning, nice guy but don't get the fixed fuel lines between the fuel rail setup, he did everything to try to fix it, but in the end I ended up sticking O-ring seals between the fuel line and the fuel rail to make it seal, he may have fixed this but to be safe I would have just gone with the standard setup)
16 gallon fuel cell in trunk
many fuel fittings
a 3/8 main fuel line from inlinetubing.com(fit perfectly, the only area needing modification being the piece of the line in that's situated in the engine compartment
A Walboro pump from jegs
Aeromotive socketless hose, fittings, and fuel pump regulator with a cheapo fuel pressure guage
MSEFI ECU and relay board
aluminum return line
a bunch of sensors taken from various gm cars.
Aeromotive canister style 10 micron filter before the injectors, inline-style 40 micron filter before the pump.

Everything fit well, though with the autonomics aircleaner I had to point the air filter toward the passenger compartment to make it fit. MS reads all it's sensors fine, but right now I'm trying to figure out the injectors problem(a question is posted at msefi.com). I've had fuel pressure at 60 PSI, cut it down to 45 PSI.

I hope to post pics, don't know how though, and I hope to get it running before I take them. I won't say price because I collected parts for over a year, and really don't wanna think about it :wink: . The setup does look awesome(and it's built for future upgrades, though overkill for anything I could do).
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like a great project.

I assume you tested the MS on a stimulator and it fires OK there?

Keep us updated,

Lou
Author:  ShivaDart [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I've got a few bugs to work out... but.... I did drive it around the block(babying the throttle, even so it did feel like it will be awesome when it's tuned right). I upped the pressure a bit(50 PSI), seemed to like that, and I found all the vacuum leaks. The injectors were just stupidity on my part. Right now I'm playing with the Lokar linkage, either I still have a vacuum leak, or the linkage doesn't return all the way to zero because my idle ranges from 600-1000(I think it's the linkage because most of the time I can lift the throttle with my foot a bit and get the RPMs down). I'm slowly working on get the VE MAP worked out, it's my first time tuning with it so it's taking a while to figure everything out(no matter how much you play with it everything seems different when you're actually trying to get something done).
Author:  Pierre [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Do you have a url for the autonomics or any other info on them?

Thats the throttle body that uses mpfi injectors right? Sounds like your just one fuel rail away from getting full blown mpfi since you have all the high pressure fuel stuff plumbed.

For the idle quality - start with making sure the valves are adjusted well. I found that made a HUGE difference in idle quality with my efi setup.

I have a GM 2 barrel tbi setup, and am in the planning stages for mpfi. How did you run your plumbing for the mpfi, I mean where di dyou use metal line, where did you use the aeromtive hose, etc.

Pix too, please ;)
Author:  ShivaDart [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm using the autonomics TB as a TBI unit(though you're right, with all the high pressure stuff all I'd need to convert to MPI is get the injector plugs for the TB and get the manifold muchined for MPI).

Currently I've got it idling well, I've been up to thirty(even at a 1/4 throttle the acceleration seem quicker than the one barrel), I currently am trying to work out a bog from idle to acceleration, but the car's somewhat driveable now. The fuel pumps making a racket, I'm hoping the filters not getting clogged by foam from the fuel cell(I'm checking tommorow, if it is I'll get rid of the foam since the pump right underneather the tank and it has a sump feed).

For fuel routing I used the larger OEM 3/8 steel line from inline tube as the feed line, used Russel compression fittings and Aeromotive clampless AN to Barb fittings(the compression fittings do what they say they do, just be careful not to overtighten, I had to replace one cause' it leaked from being overtightened). My 10 micron filter is a canister type(withstands 200PSI), it's located on the passenger side apron(the clampless hose is used to connect it to the feed line, then to the fuel rail for the TBI). The 40 micron filter is used before the fuel pump(withstands 75 PSI), standard hose connects it to the fuel cell and the pump. Don't remember the specs on the Walboro pump, I know I got it from Jegs and it's an OEM type design. I connected the pump to the feed line using the clampless hose(supposedly this how withstand 200 PSI), in order to get the hose to the steel line I took out the grommet for the fuel level sender wire(since I took the stock tank out and didn't need it), and fed the hose through that.

For the return line I used jegs 3/8 aluminum line(I want to go to steel at some point, but didn't think of it at the time). Since the return only sees flow I just used standard hose to connect the tank to the line, and the line to the fuel pressure regulator(Aeromotive built, has fuel ports, one vacuum reference, and one fuel pressure gauge port, range is something like 15-70 PSI). The pressure side of the regulator is connected to the fuel rail using the clampless hose and fittings.

I mounted the ECU and relay board where the back seat used to be... mainly because I though it looked cool there, and had the added bonus of keeping most of the wires fairly short.

I'll post pics, but need to know who's hosting free picture services.

One thing about the autonomics TB, do to it's size I'm not %100 sure you could easily fit a fuel rail with it.
Author:  64ragtop [ Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Advantage to "starting" with TB injection?
Thanks for the running commentary, sounds like it's shaping up nicely. I'll be mighty interested to know how the continuing tuning/setup goes and the ultimate results. I'm wondering what advantage there is to starting with TBI, rather than just jumping "all the way" to MPFI. I had been thinking that with MPFI, the injectors needed to fire into the open intake valve. But I recently read about the batch firing injectors just squirting fuel at the back of the closed intake valve. Something about vaporizing the fuel before the valve opens and confining actual combustion to AFTER the valve closes is confusing me. But HEY, if it works - it's just BEAUTIFUL!!!
Author:  ShivaDart [ Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Image

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Author:  GunPilot [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Do you have a url for the autonomics or any other info on them?
www.auto-nomics.com
Author:  ShivaDart [ Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry Pierre, didn't realize you asked that question...

by the way, on the MAT sensor in the aircleaner, it doesn't actually fit the holes in the aircleaner, what I did was get a rubber cork from Ace Hardware, drill a hole in it, and then stick the rubber cirlce in the aircleaner, and thread the sensor into the rubber. Not only did this make it fit, but it should prevent heatsoak. Yes, the fuel cell in the trunk is not the prettiest aspect of the swap, call it the hill-billy way of fitting a square into a round hole(bypass the hole altogether :roll: ). The aluminum return fitting will eventually be redone, and at some point I'd like the trunk to be a little bit more pleasing to the eye.
Author:  kesteb [ Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
You can always do your fuel cell that way this guy did:
http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/radrodder/ ... lCell.html
Author:  sandy in BC [ Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Interesting stuff Eric! Nice to see someone steaming ahead and getting results. Id love to see your car sometime. I will be in Spokane on monday ..but Im already overbooked...sigh!
Author:  ShivaDart [ Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Have fun in Spokane, we've got.... lots of construction to look forward to(inluding an Expo center that's way too large for our needs). Oh yeah, also we've got 80 to 100 degree weather. Just avoid 3rd Avenue downtown if you can, and the Monroe st. Bridge is still down for repairs(it's up soon though).
Author:  sandy in BC [ Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:00 am ]
Post subject: 
I just go down Nevada to Sprague to the sewing machine place ...I 90 out to Yellow Freight...back out Nevada to Colville for race car parts (mudbog weekend next week!),,,,dash back to the border before 5pm....too feekin hot.
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Cool, good luck with your project! It's good to see more examples of a slant six with Megasquirt. I hope to have mine running sometime soon - just made a down payment at the machine shop to have an older Clifford manifold fitted with injector bungs, a fuel rail, and an adapter to use a 4.6 Ford throttle body.
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