Slant Six Forum
https://slantsix.org/forum/

My '65 Dart
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14003		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  kesteb [ Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  My '65 Dart
For those that have followed this site and the .com site, most know that I have a '65 Dart. No need to bother with the mundane stuff. The basic write up can be found at http://www.kesteb.us . More up to date stuff can be found at http://www.kesteb.us/misc/changelog.html .

One of the things that I am now starting to do, is plan for the eventual engine upgrade and overhaul. To that effect, I have aquired miscellanous EFI parts, serpetine pullies, an alternator, a set of dual Dutra Duals and a GM Eaton M90.

Why a supercharger over a turbocharger? The \6 is basically a low revving, high torque design. The Eaton favors low rpms and is relativly simple to install and does not generate much heat. Heat is the bane of a turbo installation. As well as the rather complicated plumbing reqirements. Heat also effects the longevity of other engine systems.

From the research that I have done, I believe that an Eaton supercharger is a better option for me then a turbocharger. Keeping the Eaton within its design limitations, I believe that I can make 10lbs of boost at 4800 rpm. With a projected HP rating of around 250 to 300 ponies. The 4800 rpms would spin the Eaton at around 9800 rpm. Since most of my driving will be considerable below 4800 rpms, the Eaton should survive just fine and not have all the problems that are associated with spinning it over 10,000 rpms. By spinning the engine at 4800 rpms and below, I miss all the problems that result with high rpms. A win-win situation.

The GM M90 is physically differant the the Ford variety. What Al T. has done with Bigred is only partially helpfull. With that in mind, I had to design an intake manifold. My inital design and second attempt with a CAD program is located here: http://www.kesteb.us/album/engine2/intake.png .

The intake runners are 5", the plenum measures 2x5x21" for a total of 210ci, the injectors will be mounted 3/4" from the cylinder head flange and point straight down. The outer edge of the manifold will be 13" from the cylinder head. This gives me 2" of clearance from the battery. The throttle body will actually end between the 5th and 6th intake runner. So it is rather cramp, but doable.

I used QCAD for Linux and this saves off a .dxf file that is supposedly compatiable with other CAD programs. If anybody is interested, I can make that file available.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
Author:  slantvaliant [ Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Nice, thoughtful planning - Cool!
Have you tried IntelliCAD? It uses AutoCAD commands, and uses the .dwg format.
Author:  kesteb [ Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
This is the first time I did anything with a CAD program. QCAD is free, it appears to do the job I need it to do, and I am still learning to use it.
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Good thinking, Kesteb. I would like to embark on a similar route for my 68 Dart. I have a Ford M90 in hand and will probably build a manifold similar to yours.

Lou
Author:  kesteb [ Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
When you do, you will want the lower 6 rib pulley from a Ford 3.8 v6. When I went junkyarding, they seemed to be all the same. This is also what Al T. is using on Bigred.

When using this pulley a spacer/adaptor plate needs to be made. It should be 3/16" thick. When you use this thickness, the middle of the pulley is 4" from the machined surfaces on the front of the block. If you are going to run a serpetine setup, you can use a Ford 6 rib water pump pulley from a non-reverse rotation 5.0. A spacer that is 3/4" thick will need to be made to mount the pulley to the water pump. I will have to make a alternator bracket to mount up a mid '90s Chyrsler alternator from a mini-van (3.8 v6).

Of course if you want power steering, air conditioning and power brakes none of this stiff will most likely work. I don't have that stuff and I don't need that stuff.
Author:  Dart270 [ Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the pulley info. I have no need for that "other stuff" either.

Lou
Author:  kesteb [ Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Added some pictures: http://www.kesteb.us/album/engine2

Trial fitting the dutras, checking clearances with a stock manifold and starting on the flanges. Some of the casting lines were a little close to the studs. Nothing several hours with a grinder couldn't cure.
Author:  kesteb [ Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
More pictures.

The front pulley system is just about done. Made a bracket to hang the alternator on the right side of the engine. The spacer plate is done for the dampner and I am waiting for the spacer on the water pump pulley. After that is done, I can start to finish the manifold.
Author:  kesteb [ Tue May 09, 2006 10:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Due to a miscalculation in the manifold design, I need to rethink a few things. Interference with the end runners and the Dutras means I can't get the nuts onto the manifold studs. Sigh...

While doing that, my annoyance with the BBD has finally come to a head. Since I don't have any heat to the carb, I have carb icing issues and the choke is never quite right. So, I have decided to replace the damn thing.

With a search of the net, you find that the Jeep guys despise the BBD and really love the Motorcraft 2100 series of carbs. So, for $35 I now have a gaggle of 2100's. One really neat thing that I also found, was a water heated base plate, thank you Ford. Since I will be running my dual Dutras this fall this will really come in handy. Bye, bye carb icing, bye, bye choke problems.

Well, since none of the commercially available adapters work with the heated base plate, I decided to make my own. Not quite done yet but pictures are available here: http://www.kesteb.us/album/mc2100/

Should have everything installed and running by the end of the month. At that point I think I will do a write up.
Author:  kesteb [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well I have the MC2100 on the car and running with it for the last few days. This carb works really well. I should have the last of the pictures uploaded to the web site in the next couple of days.

Stay tuned.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Jeep guys despise the BBD
There are some real design flaws in the AMC/Jeep BBDs that aren't present in the Mopar variants, mostly in the idle system. That's really nice, clean work you did on the adaptor plate and 2100 rebuild!
Author:  kesteb [ Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Dan. Most of those flaws that the Jeep guys hate are due to the computer control of the BBD. Another half-assed solution to emissions control regulations.
Author:  Reed [ Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Very nice work! Excellent step by step documentation! 8)
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Thanks Dan. Most of those flaws that the Jeep guys hate are due to the computer control of the BBD. Another half-assed solution to emissions control regulations.
Well, there's certainly that, and yes, it is lame that the US automakers futzed around with frankencarbs while the rest of the world was making clean and driveable cars with fuel injection. But, the feedback BBDs used on '81-'84 Mopar V8s weren't anywhere near as troublesome as the feedback and non-feedback BBDs used on AMCs and Jeeps. The big problem is with the AMC/Jeep idle system. It doesn't just cause rough idle when (not if) it craps out, it causes the car to stop running. There's even a small cottage industry in fixing it.
Author:  kesteb [ Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
All the pictures are posted, yep, all 64 of them. I just love my Canon AS400.

Some impressions:

I built my own adapter plate becuse I wanted to use Ford's water heated base plate. The commercial adapters just don't work with it. I wanted to use the water heated base plate because I was going to intstall my Dutras'. That didn't pan out due to time and money. But I had already removed the choke flapper valve from the stock exhaust manifold, knowing full well the problems with a non-heated carb. This base plate solved these problems.

I used a rebuild kit for a '72 Jeep with a 304. The kit was from Niehdorf. I should have used a kit from a '74 Jeep with a 304. This kit would have provided the correct power value and a better needle/seat assembly. I was not really happy with the rebuild kit. I reused the old power valve and needle/seat assembly.

I modified the supersix manifold by enlarging the inlet ports to match the base plate. I also rounded out the bottom of the inlet ports. This should smoothen the air flow somewhat. The base plate and adapter raise the carb about 1 1/2". I am using a 4x14" open element air cleaner. This combo barely clears the '65s hood. In fact the plastic wing nut that holds air cleaner down slighty rubs the hood.

There is a performance increase over a 318 BBD. It is quite noticable. With no loss of low end torque, which with the 2.46 gears, was very important. The 2100 has nice smooth power as far as I dared to push the engine. I am not sure how much this is due to the carb or the other changes that invloved the installation of the carb. The carb is currently running 49 jets and a 2 stage power valve. The spark plugs are a nice even tan.

Some caveats:

The Jeep guys marvel at the smooth idle the 2100 has compared to their BBD's. I don't notice that much of a diferance. There is really no provision for ported vaccum. The 2100 was used on Ford's and AMC's, neither manufactures used "ported" vaccum for distributor advance. So I am running strictly mechanical. My distributor is setup with a 9R governor, a light "green" spring and a short heavy "black" spring, a 8.5R vaccum pod, with the initial at 12* BTDC. This combo is working nicely, but the engine would love more initial. Gas mileage is about the same as with the 318 BBD.

All in all, I am happy with the results.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC-08:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/